Tape 1/15

(conversation between Michael and Sam possibly talking about how hard it is for Michael to trust people;
Michael is age 32; phone call took place between August 29th of 1990 and August 28th of 1991)

Source: LivinOfftheWall (2014). MJ and Stein family tapes, 1/15. [Video]: Youtube.

MJ: If you don’t know, I don’t know.
S: Well, you know what, you gotta go and find out.
MJ: I can’t afford to mess up.
S: Really? you can’t afford to not to, take a chance…?… Yes, you can. I think, I mean, you can’t be completely totally alone… I think that when you’re totally ready …?…Who’s hurt you the most in your life?
MJ: Excuse me?
S: Who’s hurt you the most?
MJ: People that I…(I trust?) they hurt me?….
S: Oh really, who’s hurt you the most?
MJ: Lots of people… (i)
S: She didn’t mean to, though?
MJ: (I)
S: Really?
MJ: When she started making a game out of it and [she knew that I was (I) and lied to me….(inaudible)…and tried to…]
S: Who else? What about you manager guy?
MJ: Excuse me?
S: What about your, who’s your manager’s name?
MJ: Who?
S: The one that really hurt you…his name’s Frank or something.
MJ: Who, Tate?
S: No, your manager, your manager, your…
MJ: Frank Dileo?
S: Yeah.
MJ: That was different. That was a business relationship.
S: Was that just like uh, he didn’t hurt you, he just uh, you just had a parting of the ways?
MJ: He tried to get too controlling.
S: That was just, uh, that was just business.
MJ: I don’t remember…?…(mumbles)
S: Mike, trust me. You can trust me. Who else has hurt you? You don’t have that many people with you.
MJ: What difference does it make?
S: Well, I hope I’m not one of them.
MJ: (I) (I’m going to (I))
S: Well you have
MJ: (i)
S: Well, you are. Maybe you should die.
MJ: Maybe I should die?
S: In the media
MJ: What?
S: Maybe you should die in the media?
MJ: (Laughs uncomfortably) Naw.
S: Imitates being an announcer “(See or the)…?…Michael Jackson.” (Then they’ll knock themselves out on TV getting you to die in a video.) Imitates being an announcer again [We (i) a surprising time of him on tape (i) Michael Jackson’s ghost. Hidden behind a curtain… And running from Elvis (i)]
MJ: (laughs awkwardly) It’s going to be the British.
S: I’m going to run you out of this city.
MJ: Why?
S: ‘Cuz I’m mean Jackson.
MJ: For real?
S: I’m going to run you out of this city, Jackson.
MJ: Say what?
S: I said, I’m going to run you out of this city if you outlive me.
MJ: You’re not gonna outlive me.
S: Hey, I’m 33. You’re 32.
MJ: …?….(I)
S: Huh? What?
MJ: Sometimes it’s hard for me to get close to people. What would it have been like if I wasn’t Michael Jackson…?…Would there…(I bad tape quality)?….Joseph…?…But you know that I’m not gonna hurt you… You know I would never hurt you. You know, you know that, right?
S: Yeah.
MJ: But you know that I wouldn’t hurt you.
S: That’s the billion dollar question…(I)
MJ: Yes, but you know that… it’s just a game.
S: ? would I (I)
MJ: ? it’s just a game.
S: Oh, in the media?
MJ: As far as being, um…
S: As far as having a relationship? Is the baby moving?
MJ: (Laughs uncomfortably) No, we’re careful, there’s no babies. The way you feel… don’t you know better, don’t you know that, no matter what, that I don’t want, I don’t want to do anything to hurt you all?

[Noise reduction: I’m hearing
S: Is a baby coming? I ha.. no… (MJ laughs) (almost whispered) don’t you know, we have to be careful, (normal) don’t you know about me?; JS

There are 2 possible interpretations:

a) don’t you know that we have to be careful – in the sense of not having a public relationship/a baby/evidence of him having sex
b) don’t you know – we, meaning Sam and Mike, we have to be careful what we talk about on the phone, don’t you know about me

Since I hear we have to be careful as a whispered parenthesis I lean towards b)]

S: We know that.
MJ: No, I’m serious. You don’t understand. No matter what. I don’t.
S: I know you don’t. And everything’s good. You’ve always been good to me and I think you’re waking up. If I ever thought that you’d, uh, was being other than, you know, just you know just genuine, we wouldn’t have the relationship we have. I have no doubts about that.
MJ: About, that I don’t want to hurt you all?
S: Yeah. Never been, never been an issue.
MJ: But no matter what, I mean, nothing, I don’t want to hurt you people.
S: Have you even been in this kind of relationship?
MJ: No, this is the real thing…
S: …(inaudible) individuals you were with?
MJ: It’s real messy and they’re mean.
S: How about people outside the business?
MJ: At the same time, it’s hard. It’s hard to be friends with someone who’s not in the business because they don’t see, they don’t, they don’t understand, it’s different…?…and so…
S: I have a lot of empathy for you.
MJ: No.
S: Yes I do. I, Uh, I would think that, uh, after talking to you I had the strongest feeling yesterday that the fact that you are who you are and, uh, that you have to put up this front and there’s plenty of people pulling you in so many directions. It’s uh, you have to smile when the cameras are on and, uh, it’s very lonely. You’ve said it yourself so many times. It’s lonely–
MJ: It’s pretend. It’s like the 2300, like the video, like the mini-series, like growing up um with Motown and they tell you, they prep you. Like living with Diane (he calls her Diane here, not Diana Ross).

[Because that’s her name. Wiki:¹Her mother named her Diane, but the birth certificate was mistakenly filled out with the name Diana. Her family and Detroit friends called her Diane all her life.; JS]

They tell you what to say, what not to say. The lies I had to tell. Um. Diana. Diana discovered the Jacksons. That wasn’t true. She did not discover us. But it’s publicity. It’s pretend.
S: Who discovered you really?
MJ: Bobby Taylor and we went to a party and, uh, Gladys Knight. Diana, Diane had nothin’ to do with it.
S: I guess she was just the big name at the time huh?
MJ: And then I was supposed to be a certain age. Well, I, Okay, like, when I first came out, I had to lie about my age, but…
S: How come?
MJ: Because it’s publicity. You don’t understand.
S: How old were you? How old were you and how old did you say you were?
MJ: I said I was 10 and I was 11.
S: How come that would make a difference?
MJ: Think about it. Think about it because (squeals in high voice) “Oh! Oh he’s only 10 years old!”
S: (Imitates same squeal) “They say, oh oh you’re only –”
MJ: No, you have to lie about things. You have to cover up. You have to act like all that stuff that happened with, with Joseph and stuff. It’s like we’re supposed to be the perfect family, you know, because they putting your name out there and stuff and, uh, they’re supposed to you know, look good because it sells records and it attracts people. And the stories, well, they used to come out with when we were little. There was this one story, some magazine. I think it was “16” magazine back then. I was 13. And they lying and they have all these really weird kinda stories like Michael made this handicapped girl walk again because she saved Chester the cat. There was no Chester the cat. It was just lies. It was just…
S: They make you lie?
MJ: It sells, you know?
S: It sells records?
MJ: “Oh look what a fantastic person he is. You saved this girl’s life. She almost got run over by a lawn mower and she walked.” And…
S: …like that dying little black boy?…
MJ: Pardon?
S: …?…that dying little black kid. Is it true how much of a the little dying black boy…dying child …dying kid…?…comes to get you, (I) Michael Jackson, famous kid.
MJ: It’s like, “The Jackson family, they’re so wholesome.” And we all took pictures together back in the Jackson 5 days with Motown and stuff like that. We were all so close and Joseph was, you know, “Papa Joe”. You know. And then LaToya told the truth (LaToya’s book was published in ’91 revealed the extent of the abuse by Joe). They portray everything you know, because of publicity. “The Jackson family. They lived in a ghetto in Gary, Indiana and they made it and they’re so tight knit.” Tight knit, my ass.
S: (Laughs) Well, some of your family’s pretty tight knit though? Your brothers are pretty tight knit? No?

Tape 2/15

(a conversation between Michael and Sam, Glenda’s husband; sometime after the release of LaToya Jackson’s book in 1991S)

Source: LivinOfftheWall (2014). MJ and Stein family tapes, 2/15. [Video]: Youtube.

MJ: I’m torn between Mother and LaToya.
S: That must be hard on you.
MJ: When you’re brought up… We used to play at the club circuits and stuff like that, you know, with all the black groups and it’s like, you’re brought up and then we finally went with Motown and stuff… You’re brought up. You’re taught to be a certain way because you’re in the public eye. The close knit, the close knit family, the tight knit family, whatever, and “Papa Joe this” and “Papa Joe was wonderful” and “Papa Joe helped do this and that”. When things start falling apart, then you gotta cover for it, you know, because you’re out there and you gotta cover for it. I would come home. We would come home from sessions and if we didn’t do something right, we’d get beat with a sock full of wet sand because it didn’t leave bruises. We’d go to the studios the next day and, and, you know, people in the business, people in the Motown family, they knew what was going on. I mean if you did something wrong and Joseph was there, he’d slap the mess out of us. They knew what was going on but it was like, you have to portray this certain image. You have to smile and everything. And everything like “y’all so tight”. “The Jackson family came from poverty, you know, from being nobody” and (I)
S: ?
MJ: Joseph is dangerous.
S: ??…Joseph isn’t dangerous..(I)
MJ: Pardon?
S: Not to you
MJ: I can’t hear you.
S: I said he’s not dangerous to you.
MJ: He’s not dangerous to me?
S: ?(Not unless you let him?)
MJ: Why don’t you just not talk to me anymore? Why don’t you just… honestly, why don’t you just… Why don’t y’all just not talk to me?
S: ? Every time you tell me something about Joseph, you, uh…
MJ: I said, no matter what, no matter what you think, no matter what you believe, I would never, never never do anything intentionally to hurt you and your family. No matter what, I swear.
S: We know that. You don’t have to keep saying that. We know Joe J. hurt you.
MJ: I deal with all kinds of other stuff (?)
S: When are you going to talk? (or: like what?) Who are you scared of? You know that I would never harm you Jackson. (I)
MJ: (i) You be fading.
S: I’m not fading. You’re the one that fades.
MJ: You be fading too.
S: You know I’d never hurt you, don’t you know that?
MJ: You mean like physically or?
S: I mean physically, mentally…? (and nobody’s going to hurt you either). You know that, don’t you? Don’t you?
MJ: I really don’t know that. I know you would never physically hurt me if you were. I know that. I know that.
S: You should know that I ain’t going to hurt you mentally either.
(Break in tape.)
MJ: You love her and she loves you.
S: You know sometimes we (fight? forgive?) each other It’s… and when we get back together… we’ll see. It takes time. It’s unlikely but…
MJ: But aren’t you afraid of getting close to her?
S: No, I never get, it’s a different situation. You have a lot more to be frightened about. You have a lot more to lose. You’re… I think that you’re… I think that you’ve been hurt by a lot of people…You’ve kind of created this (nightmare thing?)…You’ve created… some, you don’t know who to trust, who to believe.
MJ: But you ask so many questions.
S: ?
MJ: You swear?
S: Yes.
MJ: (I) Do you swear on, um. Do you swear. Do you swear. I mean, do you swear you’ll tell me the truth?
S: Yes.
MJ: No matter what?
S: Yes.
MJ: Honest, no matter what? And if I swear to you that, if I swear to you that, um. Hold on one second. (Talks to someone else – “Tell them I’ll be right there.”) Hello. Do you swear, if I swear to you that I won’t disappear and I won’t change my number and go away no matter what? If I swear that to you on on Mother’s life, if I swear to you that, um… This is so hard for me (to think about?).
S: Jackson?
MJ: If I swear to you before this (I)… If I swear to you that I won’t disappear or no matter what, on Mother’s life, that you’ll tell me.
S: Yeah.
MJ: Do you?
S: Tell you what?
MJ: What?
S: If you swear on your Mother’s life?
MJ: If I swear on Mother’s life, if I swear…
S: That you won’t change your number.
MJ: That I won’t disappear on you, no way, then you will swear you’ll tell me?
S: Yes. The truth.
MJ: What do you want from me back?
S: Nothing…
MJ: First of all, before you say that, I’d like to say that I swear to you that I’m not going to go away and disappear and go away and disappear and stuff and change my number, although we are going to change it. Sorry, hold on. Okay.
S: Yeah. (I)
MJ: Like you said…
S: (Jackson , everyone hurts you?)
MJ: ?
(Break in tape)
S: (I) She lives off the Gold Coast.
MJ: Oh, for real?
S: Yeah.
MJ: When did you find that out?
S: Last Wednesday. I was playing there one day and they said that sounds like (I) that’s Janet Jackson’s house with her boyfriend.
MJ: ?
S: Yep. I’ve seen her house. She has a beautiful house on the coast… She has a beautiful home. It’s a beautiful house/coast. [Flats?], beautiful home, I’ve seen it from the Country Club. I played with the, uh, the Gene LePar, they showed me the property. Yeah, try and see if she’ll give you the number…I’ll really call her and we’ll see if (I) I love talking to her, yeah, I really love talking to her. We had a real wonderful time ,we laughed… talk to her about it, it’d be (I)….
MJ: Pardon me?
S: …(I)?..
MJ: You don’t like Randy?
S: No, I never liked Randy. Too, uh, he’s too hard and too obnoxious. He’s too, um, he’s too angry. Angry… if you have a need to be angry, fine, that’s one thing. If you got no business being angry on the street. I like Janet. She’s…
MJ: Latoya’s a witch.
S: Latoya’s crazy, a crazy person. I don’t have anything against her. She has a sweet voice. She’s a beautiful girl. Real beautiful girl.
MJ: Yeah, she’s pretty.
S: …on the outside, maybe on the outside.
MJ: Janet’s real natural. Toya’s got-
S: Oh yeah, definitely.
MJ: -Toya’s got too much of a weave in her hair.
S: Well you know (that’s typical?). Toya’s a pretty girl. Janet’s has. Janet just oozes with personality.
MJ: I have a crisis.
S: About what?

Tape 3/15

(remembering Joe Jackson’s abuse; Michael is 33 yrs. old; between August 29th 1991 until August 28th 1992)

Source: LivinOfftheWall (2014). MJ and Stein family tapes, 3/15. [Video]: Youtube.

G: You know that photograph with Janet that you brought over here, how old was she? Is that Janet and Randall and who’s that other lady? You probably don’t know which picture I’m talking about, huh?
M: Janet, Janet was real little. She was about, um, that was when Janet was on the Good Times show.
G: Oh.
M: Janet must have been… I don’t know, how old she was, mother could probably tell, I don’t know.
G: Is that Randy next to Janet?
M: Yeah, with the gold jacket?
G: Yeah.
M: Yeah, that’s Randy.
G: Okay and there’s another lady with them.
M: (What other lady?) (Glenda laughs) It’s was like… you know, girl, it was like… my brothers and (I)
G: All of them? I guess they’re not as sensitive as you are.
M: Randy grew up in it because Randy, Randy’s been really through a lot, okay? And Randy grew up with Joseph telling him – ‘cause Randy was the youngest boy and you know I been performing since I was five and Randy had to stay home with the girls. Be with Rebbie, Latoya, Janet as a baby, and had to be with mother. Joseph always told Randy, “You’re not good enough, you don’t have talent.”
G: He told him that?
M: Yeah.
G: But he was so little!
M: Yeah. And then we, y’know, tried to bring Randy into the group and he felt like he was like, when Jermaine left, when Jermaine decided to stay with Motown and we went on to Epic and stuff – and Randy was always told he was a filler. I remember we did this show. It was called the Jacksons, The Jackson Five or something like that show. And I will never forget this. Randy was like nine years old. He was on the congos. This was his first appearance on television. So we had a live audience and stuff. It was on ABC. It was a live audience and stuff like that and we were doing, I don’t remember which number it was, but Randall was, he was on the congos and stuff. Joseph was like the tyrant.
G: And how old were you?
M: Well, let’s see… Randy’s 30 now and I’m like 33.
G: So you were…
M: I was like 12. Then Joseph got on, “What the fuck happened to you?”
G: Really?
M: Yeah, like when I got close to Mr B and stuff (Berry Gordy) Mr B would kiss me and hug me and stuff like that. He’s like, “What’s up wid you, man?” You know he [Joseph] wouldn’t say anything to Mr B really, but Mr B would have gone off.
G: Tell him that he was (I)
M: Yes, Joseph never used to hug us! Mother did.
G: What about that other child that he has?
M: (long pause)… Jon Vonnie?
G: Yeah.
M: Oh yeah, he doesn’t have any problem, he never had any problem showing– he hugged her and stuff, I never could understand that.
G: That is bizarre. That’s really bizarre
M: Why is that, girl?
G: I don’t know!
M: Jackie, I mean, Jackie got it the worse because Jackie was the oldest boy, and Rebbie I think got it. And—
G: You mean “got it,” you mean like the beatings or?
M: Yeah and…
G: What?
M: But Jackie was used to get it the worse.
G: That’s terrible. But weren’t you kind of the spunky one? I mean, didn’t I read where you threw a shoe at his head or something?
M: Yeah, I was the one who would fight back when I was little. He’d try to beat me and stuff like that. You know, if I sang the wrong – I didn’t do something right or I did the wrong dance step, you know the wrong move. And I would argue back and I would fight back.
G: And all of your big brothers just sit there and watch?
M: Yeah, they were scared of him. And I threw a show at him and stuff.
G: laughs
M: And I’d run like HELL! And he couldn’t catch me, you know?
G: laughs
M: And then when I went to sleep and stuff ‘cause, we you know, we were (I)
G: (something bangs, muffling noises) Hold on, I was trying to take these jeans off and I dropped the phone, I’m sorry, laughs
M: (Can I get into them?)

[This has been disputed by others, who hear something like ‘can I continue then’. Both transcript, the RhythmoftheTide one here, and the LivinOffTheWall one on Youtube, transcribe it the same way.
Noise Reduction: It’s impossible to make out what he says, but:

The rhythm is as follows: 123 4 56, the 4th beat or word is emphasized, and it starts with an ‘i’ like in

123 456 can i continue then
123 4 56 can i get INto them

The fact that he whispers it almost inaudibly and she laughs is another point in favor of this translation. Not entirely sure, but it’s very likely what he says.
That’s significant because the whole reason these recordings exist is that Glenda’s husband thought she was having an affair with Michael.; JS]

G: ( laughs) No wait a minute, I’m going to pick them up off the floor. Hold on, okay, go ahead.
M: Okay, my brothers used to say I was crazy. And I was little. And I would always fight Joseph back, and oh my god, I would get my ass beat. And then I used to run and I threw a show at him and run like hell.
G: laughs
M: And he knocked me down on the floor one time ‘cause we were rehearsing in our living room. I did somethin’ wrong. He knocked the MESS out of me. And we were supposed to perform somewhere the next day. And he knocked me down so hard, I lost the wind, I lost my wind, right? And I was just little.
G: Mhm
M: So I got up, I was so serious. They talk about me being conceited now, you know?
G: Mhm.
M: I got up and I was crying and stuff. And I said, “Joseph, if you hit me again. I’m not performing!”
G: laughs
M: He’s like, (imitates Joe’s voice) “What the fuck did you say?”
G: (gasps)
M: I’m like, “You hit me again, Joseph” – and I couldn’t, I wasn’t even nine years old, I was probably just about seven. I said, “Joseph if you hit me again” – and I was crying my eyes out – “I said if you hit me again I am not performing.”
G: (sympathetic sigh)
M: And he left me alone. I said, “I’m not doing the show!” He said, “Don’t you know I will kick your MF ass!” And all this and that, and I got up, the wind was knocked out of me. And I said, “You hit me again and I won’t perform.” And he knew I was the star performer. (laughs)
G:(laugh) Yeah, really!
M: And he didn’t hit me.
G: Well, you had some leverage there (laughs)
M: My brothers used to say, “Mike you crazy man, you crazy.” And then when I would go to sleep at night he would see that I was scared. He would be banging on our windows and stuff and open the windows like he was going to break in and stuff
G: That’s horrible, that’s an awful thing for-
M: You read about that in the book, you read it.
G: Oh, Michael it’s been a while since I’ve read that book, I don’t remember everything.
M: He used to scare us when we was little. When we were asleep and we had to get up early in the mornings. We had to have rehearsals before we went to school. God, and he banged on the windows and we looked out the windows and he had a monster mask on (Glenda gasps) and, “Mother, mother, mother, there’s a monster!”
G: How horrible.
M: And we’d get in trouble for crying.
G: That’s awful. That’s really sick and twisted. I can’t even relate to somebody that does stuff like that. But it didn’t affect your brother’s the same way it did you, huh?
M: Welll… (silence) I seen my brothers, you know, when we were traveling and stuff and doing the circuit and all that. Joseph would be in another room messing with a girl and it was obvious they were having sex.
M: I know… but I didn’t wanna tell mother, and Marlon and I didn’t wanna tell them but… all my brothers kind of just… did the same thing, so, Joseph…
G: Are any of your brothers still married? Or, isn’t everybody married right now?
M: Well, they broke up but, Marlon and Carol have been, they’re trying to work it out. I admire Carol because Marlon was gonna divorce her but she still wanted to make it work.
G: And Jermaine, what is he doing?
M: Oh GOD…
G: (laughs)
M: I remember, like I told you before, when Marlon and I had to share a room with Jermaine and Bill was asleep. Jermaine would have girls up there all the time screwing and stuff. I always said I’d never and Marlon said the same thing. I felt so guilty when we used to home from the circuit and stuff before we made it, y’know, we used to do the club circuits and stuff. I felt so guilty, and I just cried and Joseph choked me, almost broke my arm one day. But he was proud of it. It’s like, (Joseph’s voice) “Oh, this is what you should do, boy.” I mean, he didn’t say that, but he was screwin’ women in the other room and stuff.
G: What an awful thing to witness. From your father, your role model. (sighs) Especially doing stuff to your mom. What an awful thing.
M: Mother would say when we came home, she and the girls would be in there you know, waitin’ back at the house and all happy, “Joseph’s back!” Joseph would come home, so glad to see mother. It’d just make me sick. And then Jackie and everyone, they started doing that. I told this girl – Jackie saw her when we were on stage (I). I told this girl, I said, “Don’t go with Jackie.” He found out and he went backstage and stuff and I said, “Don’t go with him, please don’t go with him.” She’s like, “Why?” I said, “Please don’t go with him, he’s gonna hurt you.” So, she went. She met him. She was a virgin. And he had sex with her and stuff like that. And in the limo, we were in the limo. And they were gonna take this girl home. Like, I said, “Why did you do that? Why you didn’t just listen to me? Why did you do that? Why did you go with him?” And she was just crying. I said, “Did he hurt you?” and she said, “No. But he told me after we had sex that he never wanted to see me again.” I said, “Why did you go with him? I told you backstage don’t go with him.”

Tape 4/15

(talking about Michael’s appearance) Sometime after Dangerous is released (1991/early ’92)

Source: LivinOfftheWall (2014). MJ and Stein family tapes, 4/15. [Video]: Youtube.

MJ:That I’m lonely and stuff. I say that on a lot of tunes.
G: You say it in that um – and I love that song – Who Is It.
MJ: “Don’t you know that I am lonely?” I say that.
G: Yeah.
MJ: I say that in a lot of songs. I say it in, um, Will You Be There.
G: You also say “don’t be judging”.
MJ: I say what?
G: “Don’t be judging,” at the end of Who Is It.
MJ: Yeah, don’t be, don’t be, don’t be judging…
MJ: You know I thought when I first started talking to you—there’s a real sense of close – “She’s not gonna be a dim wit.”
G: (laughs)
MJ: You know and it’s like, God, “She understands me. She hasn’t been through what I been through. I mean, she has, but… She doesn’t like gossip.” There is no judgment there.
G: Well, I thought you were drawn to me because, um, you realized– that I was very protective at first.
MJ: I was drawn to you because you were very accepting of me. You were accepting. And interest… intri-
G: What is that?
MJ: Interesting intri…
G: Intrigued?
MJ: Intriqued… interest
G: En… eccentric?
MJ: Interest
G: What?
MJ: Intracentric
G: I don’t even know that word!
MJ: Nevermind then. You know, like I said, “If you don’t have money, you’re called queer, if you have money, you’re called (“eccentric” word again). If…
G: (laughs)
MJ: And I thought, you know, you just accepted me no matter what.
G: I did! And I do! I still do.

(CUT IN TAPE)

(This part seems to take place sometime during the Bad tour)

MJ: The other day, after my video came out.. I don’t know what happened. They kicked me out of the trailer with my own band and stuff. And I’m on tour and stuff. Traveling with my (I) people and stuff like that. And – “Who was that”?—ya know, it was like– I don’t associate with them. Only if there’s a rehearsal, or I have to be on stage. When we’re back in the hotel room. I don’t associate, really, with those people.
G: Not any of them?
MJ: No, I don’t associate with them. I stay off to myself.
G: Why? Isn’t there anybody you could be real close to?
MJ: No. I feel uncomfortable – it’s like… okay, “This is my band, we got Michael here, we got so-and-so.”
G: (Started, interrupted by Michael)
MJ: “We got Sheryl, we got, you know, Jennifer.” And, I just don’t associate with people.
G: Do you, um? Okay. Maybe is it hard for you to (sigh) to be so open?
MJ: I just–
G: In a way, in a way, and to be looking at someone in the face or having someone look at you in the face cause you don’t want them to… ’cause
MJ: You know what, I don’t want them to get close and I don’t want them to see in my soul. And then I deal with this anorexia thing… I feel sad.
G: Don’t, Michael. You look really good. (Silence) You look really good.
MJ: (After a silence- very low, strained) I don’t look good. I (I)
G: (I)

(CUT IN TAPE)

(Sometime after Latoya posed for Playboy)

MJ: Joseph used to beat us all the time and… (inaudible) dance… would… He would, he would just… get to me. And I bought into that, he was like, “Oh you put on a few pounds.” The only thing that I could control in my life, what with Motown… ’cause they tell you- in the interviews, when we used to go on Carson or Mike Douglas or whatever back then, when we used to do interviews as the Jackson Five, you know when you’re in this kind of business they kinda like, they like…okay, girl… “Do you have a girlfriend?” “No.” Do this… You know got, it’s like, they dictate to you everything. What you wear, what you sing. ‘Cause back then we weren’t allowed to sing our own stuff and do our own stuff. They dictate to you what you can wear… If you’re on an interview, if you’re going on Carson, “This is what you say, this is what don’t say.” The only control I had over my life was eating. I had no control. We had no control. *clears throat* I didn’t, I didn’t… I wasn’t like my brothers. People, they’re angry and they take it out on others. I was angry and hurt, and I took it out on myself. And being brought up with Joseph and stuff like that… when we were rehearsing on 2300- where we used to live. It’s like, If I danced wrong, if I sang the wrong note, I’d get the hell beat out of me, I’d get thrown in the basement. So instead of taking that out on other people, I withdrew and I’d take it out on myself. There was nothing I could control in my life but my eating. And Joseph told me, “Oh, you’re… oh you have such a big nose.”
G: He told you you were too [i]?
MJ: Yes. When I was little. “You look so [i], you don’t look like my child. Your nose is so big,” and this and that. They used to call me Big Nose and stuff. And instead of retaliating on them, I just did it with myself.
G: Michael? Are you happy with your face?
MJ: Yeah. I’m happy with my face and stuff.
G: Are you happy you did all that surgery?
MJ: Yeah. Because I don’t wanna look like “(I)”[like that? Like him?]
G: Well, you don’t? (laughs)
MJ: I mean, people tell me, “Oh, yeah, you’re really Janet”. Or “Oh, (low voice) before LaToya posed nude.” Sayin’ “Toya and you is the same person and stuff.”
G: Who said that? (laughs)
MJ: Oh, god, it was in the media!
G: That’s just bad.
MJ: Toya even wrote that in Playboy. She said, “Well, at least I can put the rumor to rest that Michael and I aren’t the same person.”
G: (Laughs)
MJ: And showin’ her breasts and stuff like that. Then they say, “Janet and Michael are the same person.”
G: (chuckle) That’s crazy.

Tape 5/15

(discussing Glenda’s mom and Michael’s self-esteem issues; unknown- during the spring or summer of ’92)

Source: LivinOfftheWall (2014). MJ and Stein family tapes, 5/15. [Video]: Youtube.

[in transcript but not on tape; JS]

G: (i) I was analyzing today why, um…
MJ: (mumble)
G: I was analyzing my Mother’s Day (chuckles). I was thinking, you know, um, she was a, kind of a moody type person and her moods would… I guess this is how I learned to handle her real carefully. Because her mood could change so drastically and I would’ve done something wrong. But I didn’t know what I’d done.
MJ: Yeah.
G: So she would play this game like, “If you don’t know what you’ve done unless I tell you.” I hate that, I can’t stand, ’cause… I may not know what I had done, you know, but then… she would tell tell me what I’d done, but she would get angrier with me

[tape starts here; JS]

G: Because I didn’t know what I had done.
MJ: She would get (i) with you?
G: Angry at me.
MJ: Oh.
G: Because I didn’t know what I had done and I would just stare at her, I would just look at her without emotion because she was getting angry… and getting in my face, and I was thinking, “I am not going to let you know how much you are upsetting me right now.” So, “I’m not going to show you an emotion, I’m not going to show you what you’re doing to me, I’m not gonna cry.” And so after she would leave, and then I would go in my room and close the door and then I would have a reaction. I was trying to analyze why I don’t react. And I think that’s the reason, because I learned a long time ago – don’t show reaction.
MJ: Don’t show emotions and don’t show feelings.
G: Right. Don’t let that person see your reaction. Don’t let that person see your emotions, see what they’re doing to you… analyzing and… (i)

(CUT IN TAPE)

MJ: So…
G: Probably, cause, you know, I was thinking um… Remember when um, I remember one night, you called me real late.
MJ: Um huh.
G: You were upset. I think you were crying. I know you were crying on the phone because you didn’t want me to read that book that the Tarroborelli had written.
MJ: Yeah.
G: I didn’t like that book either, and you didn’t want me to read it… (I) ’cause one night you called up and you were all upset, you didn’t want me to read it.
MJ: Right.
G: Were you just waiting to get to know me better before you encouraged me to read that book?
MJ: I didn’t think you would understand me and I didn’t think you would have waited for that.
G: Really?
MJ: Then I got to know you better and I thought you’d understand (whispering) it’s about (I)
G: …not a word.
MJ: Because it was like… we just had to know each other and um, I didn’t want you to know some SHIT. And I thought I, you know, I was real close, like you’re a very good friend… that close. And I didn’t want to lose that. I didn’t want you to misunderstand the book. Then I felt like “We got so close… it’s okay.”
G: So that’s why you said it was okay if I read the book?
MJ: Yeah.. (whispering)… it involved (I). A lot of things have happened (i) book. Well… See, you don’t understand, you can’t empathize because you haven’t been there.
G: No, that’s true.
MJ: But, like… um we can go over this for days and its not even…

CUT IN TAPE

G: I just wanted you to know that um, I sensed your loneliness and I had sensed that you had somebody that didn’t want anything [from you] that you could at least talk to.
MJ: Somebody brave who accepted me no matter (cut in tape)… life. When I was a child, I wasn’t allowed to go to people’s houses like…
G: Never?
MJ: You read that in Toya’s book and Tarraborellis book. We could not socialize with other children (cut in tape)… but now it’s like a setback.

(CUT IN TAPE)

MJ: Tell me! Which video Black or White, Remember the Time, In the Closet and Bad. Which one do you like the best?
G: I told you that the other night!
MJ: Which one?
G: Huh?
MJ: Which one?
G: Which one?
MJ:Yeah
G: (Cut in tape) then I like Remember the Time and then I like Jam.
MJ: You like living “In the Closet” best (laughing)
G: Yeah. Which one do you like?
MJ: I like Remember the Time. I like Jam. It was real fun doing it with Michael. I liked Remember the Time, but I had the most fun doing Jam out of all of them.
G: You looked like you were having fun.
MJ: Yeah, I had fun with Naomi, but, I (whisper) hate doing that. (Laughing)
G: What?
MJ: She’s a sweetheart. She’s a champ. But I had the most fun when we were in Chicago doing Jam. I had FUN with Jam.
G: Yeah, it looked like you were having fun.
MJ: (Laughing)
G: I liked the way, at the end, where you get down on the floor you were trying to arrange his feet.
MJ: Laughing
G: Laughing
MJ: Oh God. You didn’t see the making of Jam?
G: Uh Uh
MJ: It was so funny, because I was on the floor, right?
G: Uh Huh
MJ: And he put the basketball on my head and he was holding me down on the floor.
G: No! Laughing
MJ: (Laughing) He’s so big compared to me.
G: ‘Cause you’re so small.
MJ: What?
G: Cause you’re so small.
MJ: I know. And it was so funny because we’re laying down on the floor in the video, the actual video and uh… I was trying to make him move his feet. GOD, he was like so stiff.
G: Laughing
MJ: (In deep voice imitating Michael Jordan) “Yeah, Yeah. That’s it, yeah.” Yeah right.
G: Laughing
MJ: Hold on one second, please? Okay?
G: Okay.

(CUT IN TAPE)

G: What else did Heavy D write?
MJ: Heavy D did, um, the tune with Janet (cut in tape) Cab Calloway. Yeah, had to be the overweight level with guy (he’s talking about Janet’s Alright Then released in 1990)
G: Was he in her video?
MJ: Yeah.
G: With the one with Cab Calloway in it?
MJ: Yeah. (In deep voice, very cute) Heavy D the overweight Lovaaaaaa
G: Oh… I don’t remember that.
MJ: Yeah. I like Heavy D, he’s sweet.
G: Huh
MJ: And he worked with Teddy Riley, you know, Teddy Riley, that guy. He said (lyrics from Jam), “First I cooled it like a fan. Got with Janet, then with Guy, then with Michael, ’cause it aint too hard for me to Jam.”

(CUT IN TAPE)

MJ: I took them off for a minute, I waved to the girls in the balcony and I said “This is for the girls in the balcony,” and I took them off and I put them back on. That was hard. I didn’t want to do it.

G: How, uh when did you start wearing glasses, sunglasses all the time?
MJ: I wore shades for years. You know, I wear shades because… like, like Mr. D said… and it’s true. Your eyes… when you show someone your eyes, you let them look through your soul. I didn’t want anyone to look into my soul, y’know? I didn’t want anybody to see that about me. And there’s a lot of pain and stuff and I’m very scared.
G: But, on the Dangerous album, it’s all of you. (Laughing)
MJ: (I) You really don’t understand… Do you?
G: No, I don’t.
MJ: Take a look at those eyes.
G: They’re beautiful eyes… (I) hiding from your face?
MJ: That was a mask/mat of tate/tape
G: What does that mean?
MJ: That was… it’s like… if someone, it’s like. (long pause) It’s like, you see someone’s eyes, or you draw a painting of those eyes. It’s like… did you ever see me on the cover of BAD?
G: Are you asking me if I’ve seen the cover of BAD?
MJ: Yeah
G: Yeah
MJ: I had light contacts on and that was all airbrushed. When you see me on Dangerous, that’s all airbrushed. That’s some airbrushing.
G: Your eyes?
MJ: Yeah. I don’t look that perfect.
G: (Laughing) Um okay. (Laughing). Don’t lie, I’m just (I)
MJ: It’s airbrushing.
G: Oh, Okay. Is there a reason you just showed your eyes and not the rest of your face?
MJ: Because I was supposed to be like a “vision into my soul”… looking into my soul.
G: Is that what it was?
MJ: It was airbrushed.
G: Cool…okay..

(CUT IN TAPE )

MJ: To tell you honestly what Elizabeth and I talked about… She got so “F’d” up (I)[behind?] hurt and about being a child star… and I was so screwed up and whatever you want to call it [behind me?] I swear to you (I) ’cause I do hide.
G: (Long pause) You hide?
MJ: Look, my eyes and stuff like that, but they are just airbrushed. When you see someone on the cover of a magazine. Like Vogue or Rolling Stones, or whatever you call it, it’s airbrushed. You want it to look perfect.
G: (I)
MJ: Well sure it does, of course. But, it’s like.. if I was a top person, y’know, like “Jen Brad? Jim Brett?(???) Or somebody like that… let’s say… You’re going to be on the cover of Rolling Stones (I) You look like (I). You would look perfect. No matter what you have wrong with you… That’s how it is in the business. You have to look perfect.
G: Well, you did look perfect on that one picture on the cover of Rolling Stone where you had your hands up and your head down. That’s a great picture. I noticed you don’t look at the camera?
MJ: ‘Cause I don’t want people to… (long quiet pause) soul… I don’t want people to look through my soul… I say on the Dangerous album…

Tape 6/15

(Michael talking about an ex-girlfriend and a current one named Melissa; Rehearsals for DWT; Sometime in June of ’92)

Source: LivinOfftheWall (2014). MJ and Stein family tapes, 6/15. [Video]: Youtube.

MJ: Yeah
G: I think the strangest conversation was the one that I witnessed between you and La Toya.
MJ: Oh god.
G: When, oh you (laughs), when she was being um… When she was being um, escorted… I guess she was at the condo when she was being escorted out. Do you remember that one?
MJ: No.
G: Don’t you remember?
MJ: Well, refresh my memory.
G: I think (i) I think it was when you were in Africa. Then Janet came on the phone, and I don’t know what she said, or why she got so upset with La Toya. Oh, I think, oh I know what it was, ‘cuz she said she was gonna tell Bill.
MJ: Oh, yeah and Janet was on the phone and you were on the phone and….
G: Yeah, remember that? That was…ugh…I couldn’t believe I was sitting there witnessing this, it was terrible, I felt so bad I thought I should hang up but I didn’t.
MJ: (Laughing)
G: Alright, so alright, you wanted to ask me something (i) let’s get this out of the way?
MJ: I wanna what?
G: You wanted to ask me something?
MJ: Oh, no I didn’t wanna ask you something, I just wanted to let you know.
G: Oh, you just going to let me know. So, okay what did she do, she came to your office?
MJ: Yeah, and I was in the back office…
G: So she knows where your office is?
MJ: Of course she always knows where all the offices are. . .
G: Oh okay…
MJ: Anyway, I did what I said I was gonna do…
G: You put a towel over your head? Did you find a towel?
MJ: Yeah a white towel…
G: Laughs. And a hat?
MJ: Excuse me?
G: And a hat? That must have been a sight.
MJ: Yeah, you know the hat that I always wear.
G: And then what happened? You went outside and saw her and what?
MJ: Yeah, I had to leave the office because I had a rehearsal to go to… and so she… talked to me…
G: Well, what did she say?
MJ: She talked to me, said you’ve been avoiding me? (of course not) and about drawing conclusions, and stuff and I said well… and then we left because we had a rehearsal and stuff… She’s a, you know, she’s a coordinator and stuff and she does a lot of stuff with the band.
G: She models too?
MJ: She does all kinds of things. So we had a rehearsal and of course she was gonna be there and um… so we talked during the break because the band was still, they were still getting things together, the band members and the dancers and stuff… my dancers were going to be working with me.
G: Is she going on tour with you?
MJ: No… not anymore. But um… uh, we had lunch together, we did lunch. She told me she goes like, “Michael, why can I never get through to you?” and I said, “I well I don’t wanna call you because I said you know (CUT in audio) done and spend some time with you and stuff.” And so… we were talking about the situation that had happened… and she said, so she goes, “I love you Michael and I’ll do whatever it takes,” and all that, right? And um, so I had to be honest with her… and she told me, one of the things that she told me today was, she goes like, “Well I’d like to spend some time with you before you leave because of what happened you know.”
G: Is that what she told you?
MJ: No, she knew before that… that… because I was kinda interested in her… and I know I can trust this girl, like I told you a long time ago right? I said I know I can trust her, I don’t have any bad feelings I told you that.
G: Michael?
MJ: Huh?
G: Did you ever tell Kathy?
MJ: No I haven’t… please… believe me now.
G: Eh, alright, it just blows me away because you guys have known each other for such a long time and she’s so devoted to you.
MJ: Well, you know its not like I tell everyone that I’ve known for a long time. Kathy and I have not spoken and stuff since all that stuff with my brothers was going on I will tell her eventually… you know, when I feel like talking. I just don’t want to now. I mean I know a lot of people and I don’t think (i) not that Kathy would do anything to betray me… but anyway. When she was talking to me, she’s like, she goes, “Well, I know your situation.” I had a towel on my head and I got a surgical mask… you know? “I could never see you again or something should happen and I’m really worried about that and I just wanna be with you, you know, one to one, without the gang being around. It’s just its important to me, to be with you, I don’t care. I really want to spend time with you.”
G: Go on!
MJ: You know, that’s what she said… like it doesn’t matter, no matter what you know? She told me that she’s afraid she’s going to lose me as a friend or whatever, she’s afraid she’s not going to see me.
G: But she must care for you.
MJ: Yeah, I know she does.
G: So what are you gonna do?
MJ: Well… I’m gonna, I’m gonna be with her… hold on let me just.. (i)
G: Okay.
MJ: And she said, “Well, I want whats best for you!” I said, “Dammit! Let me make my own mistakes! If it’s a mistake fine, if its not, fine, but just…”
G: How come people are so protective of you, Michael? You know you have a lot of people who really love you and want whats best for you, you’re not alone.
MJ: It doesn’t matter, I make my own choices and my own decisions.
G: Tell me something, you know what? You told me before that you’re the loneliest person.
MJ: I am!
G: Then how can you be that way when there are so many people…
MJ: Because I don’t love those people like that! I want to be with someone…I want to know what a relationship is all about before I die, can’t you understand that girl? I never had… I mean I’ve been with Tate… I’ve been, well not with… I been with Tate. I thought I was with Diana… that was just in my own mind.
G: You were a little boy.
MJ: I know, I have never had a real relationship, my brothers have been married… My brothers have had girlfriends I really haven’t had that.
G: How long did it take you to get over Diana?
MJ: Years… A hell of a long time. I just wanna know what it’s like, girl, to have a real relationship with someone who doesn’t want me for me. That I don’t, I don’t have to look over my shoulder all the time.
G: That doesn’t have an ulterior motive?
MJ: Yeah, that doesn’t question me. I mean… (i) I don’t… and, and.. like La Toya said in her book… she said, either I am going to have to find somebody who doesn’t even know who the heck I am…
G: (i)
MJ: Orrr..oorr deal with somebody whose career is equally as important, or equally like mine.
G: Well.. a nix to both of those.
MJ: What am I gonna do… I don’t want to die without knowing about… having a real relationship with a women or being involved… I don’t… I was involved but we never did anything… we never really had sex…
G: But that was your decision, that wasn’t her’s, I mean.
MJ: But, yeah, but girl, girlfriend had my nose wide open, okay? She could drive a truck through my nose.
G:(laughing) That is the craziest expression I’ve ever heard.
MJ: It’s a black thing.
G: (laughing, imitating his drawl) It’s a black thang? What is it with the nose? I don’t understand how your nose can be wide open.
MJ: I don’t know, it’s just… it’s personal.
G: I mean, it had to start from somewhere. Somebody had to have made it up and I was wondering what they were thinking when they made it up.
MJ: It’s a black secret.
G: Okay Laughing
MJ: So I loved her so much… God.
G: So was that the first time…
MJ: No, no (whispers) (it was in her bedroom?)
G: Where did Tatum and that… what was that other girls…
MJ: Tate… I dealt with Tate when I was a little bit younger. She came up to me in a club, we were in a club (she came up to me?) and she put her hand on mind and I couldn’t believe it (break in tape){This is obvious the poster of these audios was throwing us off. They skip from talking about Tatum O’Neal to this woman] [Glenda laughing, mow they are talking about someone else]
MJ: …anything. I would give her money, I would give her jewelry, I would give her a house, a car, whatever… I was never good enough. It was like… you know…
G: Well she wanted all of you Michael… she wanted a relationship
MJ: She knew how I was from the beginning. It wasn’t like she didn’t.
G: Well, she was probably hoping then that it would change
MJ: But, not until I got married
G: Well I know that… and I’m sure that she loved you… and when you have been with somebody for that many years.
MJ: I loved her so much… I didn’t want to see that. I did not want to see that.and I knew she was fooling around. I know, girl. I know it for a fact.
G: Don’t you think that attracted you to the fact that she was such a strong person and she stood up for you against your dad and she was always there? Wasn’t that a lot of the attraction?
MJ: Yeah
G: Because she’s older than you huh?
MJ: Well yeah…
G: (beep sound) That you were drawn to that.
MJ: Yeah I was.
G: (I)
MJ: And I was so in love and I had my nose wide open and I didn’t want to believe what was really going on. (Tape cut) It didn’t matter she was (Tape cut) (I), but, that’s another story. (I) And it was a good thing that it was finally over.
G: You don’t have any regrets?
MJ: No, uh uh, I don’t regret that I didn’t sleep with her. I’m glad I didn’t. (I)….
G: Yeah, that’s a long story.
MJ: I didn’t. I wish it changed but I haven’t experienced it before, ever… having a relationship like that before, I never… Being in a normal…having a relationship with someone (I) I never had that.
G: Well, I think everybody wants too…
MJ: But, I haven’t.
G: Okay
MJ: And that’s what I want. I know I’m not going to be here very long or whatever.
G: I hope it will be years…
MJ: What?
G: How long do you think you will be here?
MJ: You can’t ask me, I don’t know, what kind of question is that I don’t know.
G: You don’t have any ideas?
MJ: I don’t know… I mean, you could come up with all kind of statistics and facts and die!
G: But you said you think (I) Now? (I)
MJ: Well you know, like Melissa told me today… and she was right… she said like, “I want to see you I want to spend time with you before you leave. I don’t care what the circumstances are.” Because she knows my situation now, and she’s like, “I don’t care, whatever you want. But I don’t know if I will ever see you again,” and stuff… she was honest enough, I mean, she told me…
G: She sounds very good.
MJ: It doesn’t matter with her no matter what, you know?
G: She sounds very nice. She sounds very good.
MJ: I don’t want to die not having like, a relationship like everybody else around me have had… I don’t want to die.
G: I know, I think that to accept you…
MJ: For someone to accept me, and I’ve never experienced that, for someone to accept me totally, no matter what.
G: That’s hard to find Michael.
MJ: I don’t have time to wait.
G: You’re pushing 34 my dear. Laughing
MJ: Yeah and I have never had that. I’ve never had that kind of relationship. Like I’m alone (Tape cut). Everyone else I know have had it. But, I never have.
G: Well, I guess it’s time you get it.
MJ: I know it is. (Tape Cut)… I trusted her. Even though we had fallen in love (even though we had a little falling out?). I ruin my own relationships. Agree?
G: You do!
MJ: Oh, I won’t do that. I don’t know how I’m gonna get it (I)
G: You sabotage your own relationships.
MJ: Well, I won’t do it.
(Tape cut)
G: Because it sounds like she loved you
MJ: Yeah (I) What?
G: That will be very sad!
(tape cut)
MJ: Don’t know what I’m gonna do
(tape cut)
G: I think it is important that you hold on to everything that you hold dear.
MJ: What?
G: I think that it is important that you hold on to everything that you hold dear
MJ: (Tape cut) (I hold on to a lot of things?)
G: (I) everything that you hold dear?
MJ: You know what I want
G: Isn’t that right?
MJ: Yeah I do and it hurts me (I) since people and situations and stuff (tape cut) But, I’m sure, I’m sure about it
G: You have a lot of people that love you very much…you do…
MJ: I have a lot of people that I don’t know what’s going on,
G: About you? And you don’t want them to, But you have to hold those people dear, don’t let them go, don’t hold them, open doors.
MJ: But at least I have with some of my brothers (I) involved (trust them?)….
G: That’s good.That’s very good. Because I know you’ve been through a lot(I) Do you figure you’ll be able to do that?

Tape 7/15

(Fathers’ Day, June 21, 1992; Talking about Michael’s relationship with Joe Jackson)

Source: LivinOfftheWall (2014). MJ and Stein family tapes, 7/15. [Video]: Youtube.

G: Hello! You’re in rare form!
MJ: (chuckle)
G: What have you been doin’ all day?
MJ: Nothin’, rehearsin’ and stuff. My father called and asked me for half a million dollars (laugh).
G: What??
MJ: (laugh) Hooo (laugh).
G: What??
MJ: Yeah.
G: Are you serious??
MJ: And on Father’s Day.
G: (laugh)
MJ: Joseph called me-
G: Huh?
MJ: Joseph called me with this sob story, and he said “I been tryin’ to get a hold of you for three weeks.”
G: (gasp)
MJ: I’m like, “Yeah, well what do you want?” And he’s like, “Your number’s changed.” I said, “Yeah. Anyway, what do you want?” (The way he said that, by the way, was funny.) ‘Cause he had to go through, he had to go through four different people to get a hold of me. So I said, “Okay. Fine.” Put his call through.” He wanted to borrow half a million dollars. I’m like, “Oh. Why are you in debt- What did you do now? Why are you in debt this time, Joseph?”
G: (gasps)
MJ: You know, he played this crap on me about (imitating Joseph’s voice), “Oh, well, you know, you my son, you know.”
G: (laughs)
MJ: Like, yeah. (Joe’s voice again) “Aww, you know, I pay it back and, you know, we can come up with a contract.”
G: Has he done this before?
MJ: Yeah! All the time. And you know, when his business, when he had Joe Jackson Productions. He was real good in the beginning, back, you know, with us, when we were little, but… he’s not a very good businessman.
G: Well, what does he do now, though, since (I – managing your sisters?)
MJ: He does what he does. Well, you know, it’s like, he wanted to borrow money before and then he had to go through Mother to get it. [He would go on forever] you know.
G: (i). But I don’t remember when [whispers inaudible]
MJ: And then… they want me to give Joseph money and stuff like that. So I say, “Okay, well I’m not gonna give it to Joseph. I’ll give it Mother, so he doesn’t just throw all the money away and stuff like that, she’s in charge of it.” So now he called me again. “I been tryin’ to get a hold of you for three weeks and this and that.” Blah blah llaaalllaa, whatever. (i). He always in debt.
G: Oh my god. On Father’s Day?
MJ: Yeah.
G: How appropriate!
MJ: Yeah.
G: (laughs) And what did you tell him?
MJ: I tell him, “I don’t know,” I said, “I’ll think about. I’ll get back to you.”
G: Are you gonna do it?
MJ: No, I’m not gonna do it!
G: Ungrateful chiiiild! (laughs)
MJ: I know…
G: (laughs)
MJ: He like (Joe’s voice again), “If it weren’t for me, you wouldn’t be where you are today.” And stuff.
G: Is that what he says?? Did he say that today?
MJ: Hell yeah, he says that to me.
G: (laugh) Oh my god!
MJ: He’d always tell us that. When we were little. “Well, you know, if it wasn’t for me, you wouldn’t be where you are. If it wasn’t for me, you wouldn’t be Michael Jackson superstar” and stuff, you know. And I told him before, ’cause we got into a big fight, I says, “That’s halfway true.” I said, “But you know what I said, I grew up in this business and I learned a lot. You had a lot to do with it in the beginning and I thank you for that, but I can’t pay you back for the rest of my life.” I said, “I know the business.” You know, I told him before, I said, ” I know the business better than you do.” And I said, “You can’t keep throwing that in my face.” I said, “Because it took you to get me started.” I said, “But then after that, I was my own business man.” ‘Cause he was screwin’ up deals right and left.
G: What was the last thing [that you got involved in with] him, was it the Victory Tour?
MJ: Well, yeah, that’s one of the last things he dabbled in, he screwed it up. I said, “Don’t use Don King.” And all this and that. (Joe’s voice)” Oh, but Don, well, you know, he’s a good businessman.” I said, “No, he’s not, he’s a crook.”
G: (i) [That was a funny one? Tell us the funny part?]
MJ: He can suck my socks.
G: (laughs) I love that one part where he made this speech about bringing him back and everything. (i)
MJ: Say what?
G: You know that thing that he said, that thing and he was going on and on about- [and I was like]will you shut up?
MJ: Yeah.
G: (i) shut up. (laughs) That was so funny!
MJ: That was funny, yeah.
G: Uh huh. That was funny.

(CUT TAPE)

G: So does your family not get together today for fathers day?
MJ: I don’t know, I don’t know.
G: You just got that phone call and that was it?
MJ: I know mother–
AUDIO CUT


(CUT TAPE)

[in transcript but not on tape; JS]

G: and she gave us um, she gave us some fragrance, some . The boys came and put the video game in (i) PTA, golf, something, real extravagant. It’s very well put together, you know, didn’t expect (i). It’s funny because they have all the sound effects of birds in the trees and crickets, and (i) keep the golf ball landing in the [street/tree]. It’s fun, I mean.
MJ: Yeah.
G: They love it. (i). That was fun. (Pause).

[tape starts here; JS]

So you just rehearse today and (i)? [had an argument with your dad?)
MJ: I been real busy with rehearsal.
G: [Are you excited/ready] to get up on that stage now?
MJ: Yep!
G: (laughs)
MJ: Gotta get it togetha. Or leave it alone.
G: “Get it togetha or leave it alone”?
MJ: If you don’t want my lovin’, I’ll be gone.
G: Is that a song?
MJ: Yeah, it is.
G: Which song?
MJ: Get It Together.
G: Is it one of your songs?
MJ: Yeah. It’s one that, god it’s either with the Jackson Five, or The Jacksons.
G: I don’t remember that.
MJ: Get it togetha! Or leave it alone. If you don’t want my lovin’, I’ll be gone.
G: No, I never heard that.
MJ: (chuckle) I have to make you a tape later.
G: (laughs) I guess there’s a lot of songs I just don’t know.
MJ: Yeah. (high voice) Hi, Shadowww! (noises to the dog, laugh).
MJ: (i).
G: (laughs) I was wonderin’,”What is UP?” That’s a quiet dog. That’s the quietest dog I’ve ever-
MJ: I know she never barked yet.
G: Not yet?
MJ: Girl, when it comes dinner time, if I’m not home and somebody feeds her, they say, “Shadow! Sasha! Time to eat!” Sasha barks (barking noises), she get all excited right?
G: Uh huh.
MJ: Shadow, she just be silent, she does not make a sound. She runs, she jumps up and down, runs around in a circle, and she gets real excited and wants me to pet her.
G: She’s not the only one! (laughs)
MJ: (laughs) I know, huh?
G: What put you in such a crazy mood?
MJ: Excuse me?
G: What put you in such a crazy mood?
MJ: Oh god, a number of things.
G: Huh? A number of things?
MJ: Yeah.
G: Good things?
MJ: You know, Kathy’s, she’s so crazy.
G: Why?
MJ: We were talkin’ and I was dyin’. Oh my god.
G: Dyin’?
MJ: What?
G: Dyin’?
MJ: Yeah. It was so-
G: Like “dyin’”, funny, or-
MJ: Yeah.
G: Oh, you were laughing.
MJ: Yeah.
G: Oh, okay.
MJ: Do you really wanna know?
G: Yeah!
MJ: (laughing)
G: Tell me, what!
MJ: (laughing) First of all, I’m having a wine cooler.
G: (gasps)
MJ: Today is Kathy’s birthday.
G: Oh. Yeah?
MJ: Yeah.
G: Ohh.
MJ: And, girl. I don’t know how we got on the subject… God, I do not remember (I, laughing) We were talking about… white guys.
G: White guys?
MJ: Yeah (laugh)
G: Why?
MJ: I was talking with Kathy, cause she’s a nurse. Oh, because Randy the other day was calling Kathy prejudice and stuff like that and she’s like, “I’m not prejudice, I like white people. I have a preference, I would never sleep with a white man.” And we were talking about that. (laughing)
G: Really?
MJ: (laugh) She goes (laugh)
G: Oh no…
MJ: She like, “No, I would never sleep with a white man because their penises are just too pink” or too red or something.
G: (gasps)
MJ: And their veins show! (laughing)
G: Oh my god!
MJ: (laughing)
G: Oh!
MJ: She like, “No, I wouldn’t mind, you know, doin’ stuff with a white man because I’m not prejudice, I like white people” and stuff, “But ooh, god, I could never I could never lay down with a white man!”
G: She said that?
MJ: Because their penis is all pink and its all red, you know. She got these old men, you know, that sometimes she gotta put catheters on them and stuff like that.
G: Ugh!
MJ: She’s like, “(i) oh when the white man’s old. His penis shrinks up and you gotta jerk it up” and (i) find it and stuff! (laugh)
G: Oh my god.
MJ: Like, “Black men aren’t like that.” You know? “Even when they’re old, their penis don’t shrink up that little. And they’re not all red and wrinkled.”
G: Ewwww.
MJ: (laugh) I like, “Oh my God.”
G: (i).
MJ: She said, “I like them thick”. And she’s like, “I just can’t be making love with a white man. There’s no red or pink stuff inside me!” (laughs)
G: Oh, gross! That’s what she said?
MJ: Yeah.
G: Eww.
MJ: “But I’m not prejudice, it’s just my preference.” (i).

[This guy… he literally is telling her all the pros of black penis versus white penis, he is so blatant it’s almost subtle.]

G: What will you do for her birthday?
MJ: Well, I guess her and Randy are supposed to get together. Not sure. She said she’s 25, I said, “Yeah, you’re 25 like I’m 18.”
G: (laughs)
MJ: Yeah right. She’s 30.
G: She is?
MJ: Yeah, ’cause Randy’s 30, so she’s right behind him.
G: Well I’m way past that zone?
MJ: (i) You’re 45.
G: Uh uh.
MJ: 46.
G: No.
MJ: ….47.
G: (laughs)
MJ: Don’t you lie to me and say you’re 30!
G: (laughs)
MJ: 44.
G: Yeah.
MJ: Now, wait a minute, that means… (Sam?) is 33… and you’re 44…(i)
G: (laughs)
MJ: (i)
G: (laughing) Yeah, this is (i). This is (i) I’m just about ready for my walker. I’m an old lady.
MJ: (i).
G: I don’t know. Well, I don’t feel that age, but then I think, well what is that age supposed to feel like anyway?
MJ: Well, you know, like I always say, “If you don’t know how old you are, how old would you like to be?“
G: (i). I feel very young right now.
MJ: Well you look it on the outside.
G: Oh?
MJ: Oh, yeah, I think you’re very pretty.
G: Why, thank you.
MJ: (Pause) Yeah, you always have a glow on your face. Even that picture that I have with you and, uh, all the kids, and you were in a red sweatsuit when you were in that red fitness suit.
G: Yeah?
MJ: Yes, and you had long hair.
G: Yeah. You have a picture of me when I was, when I was still, uh, when I was still 30.
MJ: I got lots of pictures of you!
G: Yeah.
MJ: (i). Every time I saw you, all the pictures that I have of you, you always look [somewhat young?].
(CUT TAPE)

Tape 8/15

(CONT’D)

Source: LivinOfftheWall (2014). MJ and Stein family tapes, 8/15. [Video]: Youtube.

G: Because I was (i) before you were. (laugh)
MJ: (Inaudible- “Jason”?)
G: Huh?
MJ: (i). [Jason?]
G: Oh. You know his hair is so long and it’s such a beautiful color of red. It’s the longest I’ve ever seen it. Kinda like that Christian Slater guy.
MJ: I remember… when I was-

(CUT TAPE)

MJ: [Remember and all the boys were bigger than me?]
G: Don’t remember that
MJ: (Yeah, but he’s still younger than me, but bigger.)
G: I remember the very first time I ever saw you. You don’t remember that (i). You asked me how old you were.
MJ: In the olden days?
G: (laughs) Yeah, remember the olden days. . (both laugh) Yeah, we’re old. And you asked me how old you were. And I said something like, “You were (I).” Do you remember that? (laughing)
MJ: No.
G: (laughs)
MJ: (i) Tell me (i) how did you come on the phone?
G: You asked to talk to me. You [called me and asked me to pick up the phone to your mother]
MJ: Yeah. And what happened? What did I say?
G: You said, “Hi. (i)” Can’t believe I’m talking to him. I thought, “he’s so polite.” Oh (laughs) didn’t know what to say and sounded like I had cotton in my throat.

(CUT TAPE)

MJ: (laugh)
G: Couldn’t believe it. And then, I don’t know, after that you guys were on the phone a lot. Once in a great while I would get on the phone. One time you called, and I think you were in a sound studio or something (I). Then there was a period of time that we didn’t speak and then we got that mailagram one day.
MJ: Yeah, ’cause I left/lost the number.
G: And so I called you-

(CUT TAPE)

G: (i) I still have that (i) mailgram
MJ: Ooh.
G: From 1985? Yeah.
MJ: Wow!
G: Yeah! And the two letters that you wrote for the [Pocorabel? Cocorabel? Sounds like](i).
MJ: (laugh)
G: But, um… then (i)that went on for a while, and then one time you were supposed to come and get it [this pochorabel word](i) but you didn’t show up. And you were so crushed that you couldn’t (i). And then there’s after that, I don’t know, phonecalls were less (i) I guess you got busy.
MJ: Yes, I got busy with the Thriller thing.
G: (i) I thought you were getting ready to do the Bad tour.
MJ: Bad?
G: ‘Cause this was after Thriller, wasn’t it? This was after Thriller.
MJ: That was about the time-
G: Wasn’t Thriller 1983?
MJ: ’83, ’84.
G: This was in ’85, ’86. So I thought maybe it was the touring. But I remember, one of the last calls (i) I was in the living room, you called and you asked what I thought of Janet’s video
MJ: (i).
G: Janet’s video. I guess she had just come out with a new video you saw and you got on the phone and you… .and that’s when our conversation ended after that and it just stopped. And then it was just a pleasant memory.
MJ: (chuckle)
G: (i), right?
MJ: (singing) “MEMORIES”…….
G: Uh huh. (i). Yeah, Then you called in November

(CUT TAPE)

MJ: And then one time I called you, and you said, “…..Who is this??”
G: I wasn’t like that! I-
MJ: Yes, you were!
G: I don’t-
MJ: Girl, you were a mother hen.
G: I don’t talk that way on the phone.
MJ: Oh, yeah.
G: The phone makes you sound funny-
MJ: You gave me the third degree and-
G: I wanted to make sure nobody was messin’ around with me!
MJ: I’m like, “Uh, uh, uhm.” I said, “I used to talk to you(i) And I lost the number and (i).” And then I said, “I’ll tell you about the poem you wrote. (i). Yeah, you wrote me this poem called Blue (i) about the sky being so blue (i).” (laughs)
G: I just didn’t want anybody messing around with (i). ‘Cause that was a real, that was a highlight in my life (i) and I didn’t want anybody mess around with that. (i). Then two weeks later, you [call me at 10:30 at night (i)], you were all upset that I had done that!
MJ: Yeah (chuckles).
G: Why?
MJ: I don’t know…
G: You were cryin’ and everything.
MJ: I was crying?
G: Yeah. Or you were sniffling. I figured you were crying.
MJ: Don’t you feel that sometimes you get someplace (i), difficult. (i). I mean, that’s not what happened to me (i) In the beginning
G: (After a silence) [I can’t hear you.] Can you hear me now?
MJ: (i) You stay sometimes and you get like (inaudible)
G: []

Tape 9/15

(conversation between Michael and Glenda sometime during the beginning of the DWT) [Dangerous World Tour]

Source: LivinOfftheWall (2014). MJ and Stein family tapes, 9/15. [Video]: Youtube.

Glenda: Hello?
MJ: Hey!
G: Hey.
MJ: How you doing?
G: Fine, how are you?
MJ: Oh, I’m doing very good.
G: You sound real good.
MJ: Yeah. I’m having a great time.
G: That’s wonderful. I bet you’re excited, huh?
MJ: Yeah I am, tonight’s the show!
G: Are you all ready?
MJ: Yeah. I know, you know, I know it’s gonna be rough, we’re starting out a little rocky [but it’s starting to come along?]
G: I can’t even imagine the excitement you must be feeling.
MJ: Girl, you know and, it’s, I’m still in America time, you know?
G: Yeah?
MJ: But I’ve been so tired, we passed soundchecks today. It’s like God, I have a show to do!
G: (laughs)
MJ: How was your trip?
G: Oh it was just fine, it was very nice. So you, um- how long will the show be, how long does it last?
MJ: The show?
G: Yea.
MJ: Tonight?
G: Yeah.
MJ: Well, a couple hours, a little longer than that you know. We’ve got a big crowd. It’s gonna have pyrotechnics and it’s gonna have… it’s gonna have a lot of, you know, stuff like that ’cause I looove that kind of stuff. And it’s gonna have illusions and it’s really exciting, I can’t wait.
G: (chuckling while he talks)
MJ: I love it, I never wanna come home.
G: (chuckle)
MJ: And you know I’m gonna feel [accepted? Exactly like that?] on stage. Especially when [all that (I) all over the place] Oh God, I love it! I love this. Yeah.
G: That’s wonderful.
MJ: So excited
G: I can hear it in your voice
MJ: I’m taking all (I) I’m doing my vocal exercises and stuff, [going to bed] and (I)
G: Is your voice in top form?
MJ: Yeah!
G: (clears throat) Are you feeling okay?
MJ: I’m feeling great. Feeling so good. You know, I was kinda a little bit skeptical when this (inaudible) but now that I’m here I can’t wait, I can’t wait!
G: (laughter)
MJ: Can’t wait. I went, we went to this hospital, and we saw a lot of — we weren’t we weren’t– I been back and forth already [to Germany?] And we, um, were on this helicopter ride and it’s beautiful in this country. I mean there’s a lot of green, blue skies, lot of green. (I) And we saw this castle, it’s this Bevaria castle, you know?
G: uhuh
MJ: And it’s called Noo—Noo Sheee..sjdskdjaskj.. wooonnnn…. sheee… cheeee (trying to pronounce it) (He’s talking about Neuschwanstein Castle)
G: Yeah… Yeah.
MJ: And, and… yeah.
Michael and G: (laugh)
MJ: And King Ludwig used to rule there, he used to live there. They say he was a real loony toons. Like they said he was really strange, yeah.
G: Hold on. Hey! Go ahead. (another line? Someone says Hello in the background)
MJ: (mumble) I heard: (I) you hollering?
G: Come and find out (Glenda is talking to a person in the room again)
MJ: What?
G: I’m talking to (Kevin? maybe her son Damion?) right now. He want’s to say hello to you. He hasn’t talked to you in awhile. (silence). Is that alright?
MJ: Yeah!
G: Hold on.
MJ: (now Michael is talking to someone in the room) How you do that? (laughing) I was gonna say “Bill, what are you talking about?”
G: You can keep talking. He’s not here yet. (talking about Damion/Kevin, I guess).
MJ: Oh. But I get excited. I’m looking at my schedule and stuff. We’re gonna go to Berlin for (I), Cologne, that’s gotta be (I) and this place called Phantasialand.
G: Really?
MJ: We’re gonna go to the zoo in Frankfurt. And we’re gonna go to the (inaudible). And I was hoping, I don’t know, but I don’t know what [days?].
G: (laugh)
MJ: (presumably to someone in the background) I did, I really did!
G: Hello?
MJ: Hi.
G: Hi.
MJ: I’m gonna (I) Schatzi (German word for “sweetie”)
G: I don’t know what that means
MJ: That means… Schatzi means, “Sweetie”
G: Uh huh
MJ: What was the next (I) I said hello and (I) (both laugh) Yea, I like that.
G: What’s that mean again?
MJ: It means, Schatzi means… (i) Schatzi the music.
G:Ooh, that sounds nice.
MJ: We have this MTV here but it’s 2 years old.
G: Oh really? Oh.
MJ: Yeah, it’s really weird though. Have you ever been to [London?]
G: Yeah.
MJ: They’re like, you know, as far as LA is concerned they’re like 2 years behind
G: No.
MJ: Yeah, they’re 2 years ahead of us. And even in Germany, they’re, it’s different. The girls are (I)
G: Really?
MJ: Yeah they are.
G: When we went to South Africa it was like, our clothing was about 3 years ahead of y’know, the United States. Then we came back our clothing was ahead of everybody. Then they caught up about 3 years later.
MJ: Isn’t that weird?
G: Yeah it was (laughs) it was weird.
MJ: Have you had a nice time (I)?
G: Yeah, hello? (laughs)
MJ: Good, (I) gutt?
G: It was very nice, very relaxing (romantic?)
MJ: Really?
G: laughs
MJ: Did you see the card that I sent to Sam?
G: Yes, I did. It was very sweet. He liked it.
MJ: (Inaudible) [He was good to me?]
G: Well yeah, you haven’t talked to him in ages. He’s been gone a lot, though. He’s gone every night.
MJ: (I) I do, I love [being gone from the states] laughs
G: Really?
MJ:Yeah I do, laughs. (I) You know what’s really weird? I was just telling (static goes up)
G: Okay.
MJ: Today and yesterday, like on the top of your head, like on the right side–
G: Yeah.
MJ: — been getting a really sharp pain and they go away. And it was a really, really sharp pain.
G: Have you ever had those before?
MJ: No. No, I haven’t… I mean, I had them earlier, tonight and then [like yesterday]
G: Maybe you’re just tired.
MJ: I never had that before.
G: Never?
MJ: No, no. But then they go away. But they’re real sharp pains, just like on the very top of my head on the right side.
G: Oh.
MJ: (Inaudible, ich?) …haven’t had it, haven’t had it.
G: Are you taking your medicine?
MJ: Yeah.
G: Are you eating?
MJ: …Yeah.
G: (laugh)
MJ: We have this thing, it’s a (inaudible). We had them in London (he pronounces it so British, it’s cute), I didn’t, I didn’t taste it- EAGHH. Actually, when I heard it, I heard about it a long time ago. Did you see the movie King Ralph?
G: No.
MJ: There was this pastry out in London in stuff, and it’s called a Spotted Dick.
MJ and G: (both laughing)
MJ: (imitating someone else) ” It looks good.”
G: Sounds terrible! (laughs). That’s funny.
MJ: (in posh English accent) Would you like a spotted dick? (it’s an English dessert)
G: Sounds interesting (Laughing)
MJ: I don’t think so.
G: (Laughs)

[CONT’D]

MJ: My commercial’s running now (Pepsi Dreams commercial I’m guessing)
G: What commercial?
MJ: (i) [Dreams?]
G: Is it?
MJ: Yeah
G: I haven’t seen it, is it here?
MJ: Oh no, you won’t see it in the states.
G: Why?
MJ: Laughing
G: (Laughs) Why?
MJ: Would you (I)
G: Yes
MJ: (I) I’m not really that important/ involved at this stage except for the fact that I was y’know in it/did it. It almost means nothing now. (I think he’s talking about the TV show, Jacksons: An American Dream, which aired that fall)
G: No, I guess not. But that’s your decision, isn’t it?
MJ: Well, yknow (I). There’s not very many black people here.
G: No?
MJ: No.
G: You know, the German women really like black men.
MJ: Yeah so do the women over in at (I)
G: Is it?
MJ: Yeah. Black men aren’t really allowed to be there really. They don’t appreciate black men.
G: (laughing)
MJ: Yeah, but their women like the black men though (laughs)
G: laughing
MJ: (I) And it snowed here, flying over (I) So green and so brilliant and beautiful.
G: Sounds lovely!
MJ: I get so (I)
G: Really?
MJ: I guess I have a lot more (I)
G: I guess.
MJ: Yeah.
G: So how long will you be there?
MJ: Well, until the 25th is the schedule
G: Hold on. Okay?
MJ: (I) today, then after that I’m gonna be in Cologne July 11th… still there?
G: Uh huh
MJ: Cologne till July 11th
G: Uh huh
MJ: Gonna be in Frankfurt on August 28th
G: Okay
MJ: gonna be in Stuttgart on the 7th
G: Is it S T U G
MJ: S T U
G: G?
MJ: No, S T U T T G A R T Stuttgart and that will be on August 30th, I’m skipping my birthday. Then I will be in Berlin on September 6th. Then I will be in GE — GE—-
G: (Laughing) Go on
MJ: Let me spell it. G E L S T no I’m sorry G E L S E N
G: Oh, wait a minute here we go, G E L S E N
MJ: K I R C H E N (Gelsenkirchen is a city in Germany, but he didn’t play there) September 6th
G: Okay
MJ: That’s what I’ve got for now
G: Okay. That’s what you’ve got for now. Good that sounds exciting for you
MJ: So that’s my schedule.
G: You sound so wonderful. You sound better than I’ve ever heard you.
MJ: (Giggles) I’m not, well, you know this is how [I really am ask my brothers]
G: I guess
MJ: And I’ve got the Hese—hesevonsin–
G: (laughing)
MJ: Hese- it’s a hospital
G: What’s it called?
MJ: It’s called Hesuit-Hersuits H E R Z then the next letter is J E S U Khron- Khronosinhouse hospital K R A N K E N H A U S (the German word for hospital is Krankenhaus which is what I think he’s trying to spell out! I googled and found a Herz Jesu hospital, maybe that was what he was talking about?)
G: Good grief, that’s a hospital? (laughing)
MJ: Yes
G: (laughing) Okay. What do you do? Do you visit children there?
MJ: Yeah. Yeah, I’m going to
G: Well, they showed you on MTV, they showed you on (Monday?)
MJ: When was this? The other day?
G: Oh yeah, it was when I was with Lynette.
MJ: Oh really? You saw it?
G: Yeah, you cut your hair.
MJ: Oh I trimmed it. I trimmed it a little.
G: Anyway, you look swell.
MJ: What?
G: You look swell.
MJ: Oh, thank you.
G: Laughing
MJ: (I)I know about (I)
G: Why?
MJ: (I)concerts, you know a lot of stuff and then (I)
G: I’m sure you’ll be perfect. You’ve put a lot into this, It’s gonna be perfect
MJ: Yeah, I know but it always takes a little time [to do? Get into?]

[Tape cut]
G: There’s a part when you, there’s a part in Jam, when you, um, I think it’s when you catch the ball-
MJ: Don’t tell me…
G: (Laughs) What?
MJ: I look like Janet.
G: Nooo! (laughs)
MJ: Oh.
G: I was gonna say you just like, you have a very vulnerable look on your face. (laughing)
MJ: When I catch the ball?
G: Yeah.
MJ: And I’m smilin’, right?
G: No, not really. No, you’re not really smiling. No, you don’t look like you’re smiling, you look king of lost. Really lost.
MJ: Okay, it’s not the frame that I was thinking of.
G: No. It’s towards the beginning.
MJ: Oh, yeah. You mean when I was with Michael and- I look confused or something?
G: When somebody throws you the ball and you catch it, you just have a real off look on your face.
MJ: Did you like the video?
G: Yeah. I do like the video, I like it a lot.
MJ: I remember when you called me (I), excited.
G: Yeah?
MJ: Yeah.
G: Do you talk to a lot of people on the phone?
MJ: No, why?
G: I was just wondering.
MJ: Why would you ask that?
G: I just wondered if you did. (Laughs) Oh, I read, um, I got a magazine to read on the plane. I bought Us magazine, and there was a couple of poems in there, I guess from your book, and there was a picture of you with a veil over your face.
MJ: Uhuh?
G: It was the poem, um- one of the poems was the Ryan White-
MJ: Oooh, the Ryan White poem?

(Michael’s Ryan White poem:

“Ryan White, symbol of justice
Or child of innocence, messenger of love
Where are you now, where have you gone?

Ryan White, I miss your sunny days
We carelessly frolicked in extended plays

I miss you, Ryan White
I miss your smile, innocent and bright
I miss your glory, I miss your light

Ryan White, symbol of contradiction
Child of Irony, or child of fiction?

I think of your shattered life
Of your struggle, of your strife

While ladies dance in the moonlit night
Champage parties on charted cruises
I see your wasted form, your ghostly sight
I feel your festering wounds, your battered bruises

Ryan White, symbol of agony and pain
Of ignorant fear gone insane
In a hysterical society
With free-floating anxiety
And feigned piety

I miss you, Ryan White
You showed us how to stand and fight
In the rain you were the cloudburst joy
The sparkle of hope in every girl and boy

In the depths of your anguished sorrow
Was the dream of another tomorrow”)

G: Yeah. And then there was another one but I don’t remember. About a baby looking at his mother’s face or something. I was really very taken with the Ryan White one.
MJ: Oh, they got a really, really a lot of nice drawings that I do. Some nice photographs and stuff.
G: And there’s a couple of pictures, besides the picture of you with a veil over your face, there’s a picture of you standing with your black jeans and your redshirt and your hat. And then there’s a picture of-
MJ: There’s pictures of paintings that I did, too?
G: Oh. Well, not in this magazine that I got.
MJ: Oh.
G: I was talking about US magazine. And there’s a picture of you sitting. Just sitting. Yeah. It’s fun ‘cause it’s (i)??- it’s nice. It’s a nice picture.
M: Well, I hope you like the book
G: I’m sure I will
M: That’s what I was going to give (I)
G: Oh? That would be nice
G: Yeah they asked about you.
M: [Asked what?]
G: Yea. Scooter said to me, when I got back, “Did you see Michael on television?” (laughing) and I said “Yea”.
(CUT IN TAPE)
M: This is what I wrote describing music. “People ask me how I make music. I tell them I just step into it. It’s like stepping into a river and joining the flow. Every moment in the river has it’s song. So I stay in the moment and listen.”
G: “In the moment” what?
MJ: “I stay in the moment and listen.”
G: Oh, I see. Oh, that’s beautiful, Michael. When did you do all of this?
MJ: [I wrote this poem over at, I just collected, I’ve been doing a lot. I’ve been writing poems for always. I got something for you that I wrote] (I)
G: Yeah, that would be very nice
MJ: Yeah. (i). It says (Inaudible something style?) I love you, it says a lot.
G: It does?
MJ: Yeah, it does.
G: When did you write it?
MJ: I wrote this about- Oh! Guess what?
G: What?
MJ: Guess what I got. (chocolate butterscotch!! Mmm).
G: (gasps loudly) Did you really??
MJ: Yeah, I did!
G: [Do you like it?] (laughs)

Tape 10/15

(Michael and Glenda start the conversation; Michael later starts talking to Sam about Fathers Day and Germany; June 27, 1992)

Source: LivinOfftheWall (2014). MJ and Stein family tapes, 10/15. [Video]: Youtube.

Brandi: Brandi Jackson
Glenda: Who?
Brandi: Brandi
G: Brandi? Oh, I don’t think I’ve talked to you before. Is Sherry there?
Brandi: Yeah
G: Can I speak to her?
Brandi: Is this Glenda?
G: Yeah, this is Glenda.
Brandi: Yeah?
G: Yeah! Who are you, Brandi?
Brandi: What?
G: Who are you?
Brandi: Who am I?
G: Yeah
Brandi: BRANDI JACKSON!
G: Brandi Jackson?
Brandi: Yeah.
G: Oh (laughing) which one… who do you belong to?
Brandi: Sigmund (Jackie’s real name)
G: Sigmund, oh okay.
Brandi: My daddy (inaudible)
G: (Inaudible)? Oh, okay. It’s nice to meet you.
Brandi: You too… Wait, hold on.
G: Okay.
MJ: Hello
G: Hi
MJ: Hi
G: I’m gonna have to get a new phone. I hate all this static.
MJ: Oh, you have static?
G: Yeah. And I don’t know what causes it. I don’t know if it’s the cord, the phone or what it is. But, it just aggravates me so much, I’m getting a new phone.
MJ: (Laughing) It might be the cord
G: Well, I was thinking that. I even tried to change. I tried to use the cord, ya know, from the other room because this one has some little nicks in it and still, it still has static. So I’m thinking, “It’s got to be the phone.”
MJ: Hmmmm
G: I’ll find a new one.
MJ: (Laughing) Brandi comes to me and she says, “There’s another lady on the phone and she’s the sweetest.” (Laughing) I think she (I)
G: (Laughing) (I) she sounds (I). I’ve never talked to her before.
MJ: She’s a cutie pie. She’s Jackie’s little girl. (I) She was in my commercial, that LA Gear commercial.
G: Oh she was?
MJ: Yeah.
G: Oh.
MJ: And she was in the video, “Time to Remember.” She was a doll. She was soooo pretty.
G: Aahhhh
MJ: She’s a good actress. Let me see what time it is.
G: Well, I was expecting your call.
MJ: Yeah?
G: Yeah
MJ: Hold on a second, okay?

(CUT IN TAPE)

NOW MJ IS TALKING TO SAM , BEFORE WORLD TOUR GERMANY JUNE 28/29 1992

MJ: (Laughing) Then we went to the um… I don’t remember the name of it. It was a wild animal place in Germany.
SAM: A wild animal place?
MJ: Yeah. Have you been here?
SAM: I’ve been there, but I didn’t go to a wild animal place.
MJ: Where’d you go?
SAM: Luxemburg and um, Hamburg. That’s all.
MJ: Have you been to Venice?
SAM: Yeah.
MJ: It’s beautiful.
SAM: Is this the first time you’ve ever been there?
MJ: No, never
SAM: Yeah, it’s beautiful and the weather?
MJ: It’s okay. It’s really hot out here in Germany.
SAM: It was nice today. It wasn’t bad. I might have to use tomorrow the air conditioner.
MJ: They have snow capped mountains here.
SAM: Oh really?
MJ: A lot of green and a lot of blue sky [I never seen (I)?]
SAM: (I’ve been there). We’ve got such bad (tapping phone) reception on this phone.
MJ: Yeah, I know.
SAM: So what did you do? Are you doing any shows?
MJ: Yeah, I do one today.
SAM: Today? Oh what time today? What time is it?
MJ: It’s about 6:30
SAM: In the morning?
MJ: Yeah.
SAM: Oh, I see. That’s why you’re excited.
MJ: Yeah
SAM: Well, that’s great. You got it all together?
MJ: Yeah!
SAM: You sound real good
MJ: I’m excited (laughing). I can’t wait, God!
SAM: Fantastic.
MJ: We went to a hospital called Hope (I)… I don’t know… something. And we gave some… and we gave away tickets to under privileged kids (I) and tee shirts and stuff like that.
SAM: So where’s your first concert? In Stuttgart?
MJ: No. It’s in Munich.
SAM: In Munich? So how many are you doing in Germany? Just… You just doing one?
MJ: What?
SAM: You doing one?
MJ: No. I’m going to do more than a couple.
SAM: Oh okay, well good.
MJ: Real good.
SAM: I thought you’d call last night, but you probably didn’t get a chance.
MJ: No, I didn’t. (whispering inaudible) It was engaged
SAM: She’s here… she wanted me to talk with you first um (inaudible) what’s going on and to say hi.
MJ: We already talked (laughing)
SAM: Oh God (laughing) that’s right. I don’t know why I didn’t think you didn’t speak to her, of course you did.
MJ: Did you have a real good Fathers Day, Sam?
SAM: I had a good one yeah. It was a real good .I got Vodka
MJ: What else? What else did you get? I heard you got a video game
SAM: Yeah. I got a video game, a golf game, real neat. And I got some cologne.
MJ: What kind of cologne?
SAM: I don’t know what’s it’s called… it’s uh… Ho ..Ho..Homo..Homo something.
MJ: (laughing)
SAM: Homo-
MJ: Sexual? (laughing)
SAM: It ain’t Sexual (laughing) It’s called… I don’t remember what… some, some Japanese thing. It’s called Sung Homo.
MJ: Son of a Homo?
SAM: Son of a Homo!
MJ: (laughter)
SAM: It’s called Sung (spells it) S U N G
MJ: SUNG?
SAM: SUNG
MJ: Yeah
SAM: Oh you’ve heard of it?
MJ: Yeah.
SAM: Sung. And then it says Hammy (he spells it) H A M M E.. I think that probably means cologne, huh?
MJ: (Laughing)
SAM: Sung Hammy… It’s Hung Sung Hommies… Hommies. We call homosexuals Homies!
MJ: Another thing that means Homie! (Laughing) I’m a big home boy.
SAM: (Laughing) You’re a home boy!
MJ: I’m a home boy!
SAM: You sound real good. Who answered the phone? Randy’s son? Randy’s daughter?
MJ: Randy doesn’t have a daughter.

[Randy has 2 daughters, born 1989 & 1990, but disputed his paternity/MJ might mean old enough to be on the phone; JS]

SAM: Huh… who answered the phone… um was it Jermaine?
MJ: Jermaine? Jermaine answered the phone?
SAM: [Does he] have a daughter? Does he have a daughter?
MJ: Yeah.
SAM: What’s her name?
MJ: Her name’s Autumn.
SAM: I don’t think that’s it. Well, Glenda will tell me when she gets home. (I) She said… be able to say it’s a “nice lady on the phone”.
MJ: Huh? What did she say about that?
SAM: She said that… [she never spoke to her before]
MJ: I got a feature to do tonight. I got a couple of them.
SAM: I know. You already told me.
MJ: Oh yeah. I got some stuff in German to do
SAM: German, huh?
MJ: Yeah, I got some postcards. But, I haven’t got ‘em all yet. We’ve got some coloured [pictures?] for you and um, we got (I)..
SAM: How are the rehearsals going?
MJ: Oh, fine
SAM: Going good?
MJ: Yeah. We have a sound test to do. You know, there are a lot of soccer fields out here too and I’m suppose to meet with some soccer pro. I forgot the name.
SAM: Well, there’s lots of good pros. You should get some signatures for me.
MJ: Yeah. He’s well known. I forgot his name.
SAM: There’s lots of fields down there.
MJ: I have to check it out.
SAM: They’ve got soccer fields there, like there are baseball fields here.
MJ: Yeah. There’s a lot of soccer.
SAM: Do you know how to play soccer?
MJ: A little bit.
SAM: If the guy’s meeting you, he must be a superstar huh?
MJ: Yep. I know you know this guy too.
SAM: Would you recognize it if I tell you?
MJ: Yeah, maybe.
SAM: Is it (I) Hans [somethingforeign] Maya?
MJ: No
SAM: That’s one of the biggest… um let’s see who else… Craig?
MJ: No.
SAM: That’s one of their big guys. Well, (I)
MJ: Yeah. I’ll let you know
SAM: Well, you seem excited. That sounds great
MJ: Yeah… I’m (I)
SAM: Well, it’s been a long time since you’ve been on stage hasn’t it?
MJ: Yeah, it has. Since the Bad tour.
SAM: Well, I thought you did that thing for Sony?
MJ: Well, yeah… but, we’re talking about concerts.
SAM: It’s a different feeling, huh? Were you doing one song or can you do a whole other album?
MJ: No. We’re going to do more than that.
SAM: Oh you are?
MJ: And you know what? When we were out in Germany, we did this thing for (I) that day.
SAM: Yeah
MJ: They got a TV station in (enwych?? English?) and they got (I). It’s a radio station

(CUT IN TAPE)

SAM: Y’all must have been thirsty.
MJ: They gave us some beer over there.
SAM: Oh! And you haven’t drunken any?
MJ: No.
SAM: (I) beer to drink it
MJ: They wanted me to try this beer. They said it was the best beer… that isn’t nasty.
SAM: Some of it is
MJ: What?
SAM: Some of it is
MJ: Oh, I don’t know. I didn’t want to try it. They said in Germany, everybody’s going to be drunk after the show (laughing). ‘Cause see… we don’t sell beer. I don’t want beer during the show.
SAM: During the show? Yeah
MJ: It’s like (I)you know (i) The beer is called Haff. HaffStein..It’s (he spells it) H O T H S T I F T
SAM: H…
MJ: H O T H S T I F T
SAM: Let me write it down
MJ: Okay
SAM: What is it?
MJ: Okay, you ready? It’s H O T H… It’s one word… H O T H S T I F T
SAM: It’s like STINE?
MJ: Yeah
SAM: STINE?
MJ: STIFT
SAM: Oh Hothstift, Hothstift?

BEEP (CALL WAITING)

SAM: Who would call this late? Hello
Female voice: Hi Sam
SAM: How you doing?

CUT IN TAPE (Back talking to Michael)

MJ: We’re going to Bavaria. The Bavarian castle in the mountains. And King Ludwig [i] stays there… They say he is a loony toon.
SAM: Oh really?
MJ: Uh huh. We’re going to go to that castle. It’s Neuschwanstein Castle. And King Lu… Lud…
SAM: Ludwig?
MJ: Ludwig… We went to a hospital called the Hur… It’s (he spells it) H E R T. then it’s (I)J E S U Khronosinhouse (Khronosinhouse is the German word for “hospital”)
SAM: (I)? (repeats the hospital name)
MJ: Yeah
SAM: I’ve never been there though. I heard it’s beautiful there. (I) beautiful place.
MJ: I don’t know if he um, where we’re suppose to go… Stuttgart
SAM: Stuttgart?
MJ: Stuttgart. You know… it’s not like me not knowing what we’re (I)
SAM: So what that? The Hospital’s name?
MJ: No. Where I’m (I)
SAM: Oh really. But, Stuttgart is very famous.
MJ: Yeah, but it’s not a (I) like (I)
SAM: I think that’s um, didn’t the Beatles (I) there?
MJ: Yeah. I’m sure they did.
SAM: That was the main place
MJ: (I) We’re going to go…we’re going to go to the um, to the zoo in Sansburg… And um
SAM: Is there going to be naked animals?
MJ: (I)
SAM: Laughing
MJ: And then we’re going to go to Berlin. Then we’re going to go to (I) September show (laughing)
SAM: When Glenda comes… I’m gonna say, “Michael called,” and she’ll say, “When? Oh no, I wasn’t there?” So… Um she’s back now! (I)
MJ: (laughing)
SAM: She rides back to work and I said, “We missed you, we missed you.” She always misses her mom.
MJ: Really?
SAM: And when she’s gone over the weekends, it’s peaceful.
MJ: (laughing). I know you told me that (Laughing). Don’t say that.
SAM: (Laughing) No, I really miss her.
MJ: You know, have you ever been to Cologne?
SAM: Cologne? Yeah.
MJ: (I)
SAM: Uh huh
MJ: Do you know where we are going to go?
SAM: Where?
MJ: We’re going to go to some, um some place. It’s like Magic Mountain.
SAM: Oh really?
MJ: Yeah. It’s not as big as Disneyland, but it’s like (I) and we’re gonna go there. (He’s talking about Phantasialand)
SAM: Oh.
MJ: Then we’re going to go to the Frankfurt zoo
SAM: Are you having a hard time traveling around?
MJ: No
SAM: So there’s going to be crowds that are following you and everything?
MJ: Yeah, I know. But I like traveling.
SAM: Well, they’ll probably shut down the place for you.
MJ: Yeah. Like I’ll be in Disneyland and I go to the…You know they have tunnels in Disneyland. We get to the front of the line and I go and hide (I).
SAM: They have tunnels?
MJ: Yeah
SAM: You mean… underground?
MJ: Yeah. In Disneyland
SAM: Really?
MJ: Yeah they do
SAM: Is that for private stuff?
MJ: Yeah. They’re for V.I.P.s
SAM: Oh. How come I never got to go under them?
MJ: (Laughing)You didn’t know about that?
SAM: I thought I was a V.I.P
MJ: You are to me.
SAM: V.I.P’s do lots of things. Right? I have a V.I.P. pass to (I) ellica
MJ: What? (I) ellica
SAM: It’s a restaurant
MJ: Oh that restaurant
SAM: Glenda made fun of me because I’m V.I.P (laughing)
MJ: (Laughing)
SAM: Well. I want to thank you for my card. Thank You for my card. It’s really, really nice.
MJ: I’m glad you like it
SAM: (i)
MJ: It’s weird (I) .She goes I (I) tires..ya know..(I) need is tires. (I)

Tape 11/15

(July 6, ’92; a long conversation between Michael and Meagan, Glenda’s daughter; Michael is in Monza, Italy)

Source: LivinOfftheWall (2014). MJ and Stein family tapes, 11/15. [Video]: Youtube.

MEGAN: …and the other kids (I) She went over and she pulled a different person out… Then… and pointed to a different person… So she went up to the the girl and said, “You lost your seat.” And the woman, she was all staring at us. It was funny. Then she walked up to the boy right when you were coming up to me and she said, “You lost your seat.” (Laughing) He looked at me. It was funny.
MJ: Really?
MEGAN: Yeah
MJ: How old is the little girl?
MEGAN: She’s like… (Meagan is asking someone in the room something, possibly Glenda) I think that she just turned 3.
MJ: Oh really?
MEGAN: Uh huh.
MJ: Does she have blonde hair…
MEGAN: I think… blonde.
MJ: Really?
MEGAN: Uh huh.
MJ: What?
MEGAN: She does have blonde hair.
MJ: What part of Germany… Ask her. The next time you see her, ask her what part of Germany did she come from.
MEGAN: Okay. (Now she speaks in a foreign language to someone else in the room, then comes back to the phone and says). My mom said she’ll ask the mom and tell you.
MJ: Do you know what time it is here?
MEGAN: What time?
MJ: It’s morning already.
MEGAN: It is?
MJ: Uh huh.
MEGAN: It’s not morning over here!
MJ: It’s 6:43 over here.
MEGAN: Why? (I) lucky
MJ: You know what?
MEGAN: What?
MJ: I’ve got a show to do tonight.
MEGAN: You do?
MJ: Yeah, I have a couple.
K What channel is it on, on TV?
MJ: Oh, it’s not gonna be televised.
MEGAN: Ahhh ( kid sounds sad) I saw your one, um, the other day…
MJ: Yeah?
MEGAN: That one that you put on…
MJ: Yeah, but…
MEGAN: I’ve never seen that kind before.
MJ: Yeah, but didn’t your guys record it on channel 11?
MEGAN: (Megan uses a foreign language to speak to someone in the room, comes back to the phone and says) Yeah.
MJ: You should have recorded it on MTV because it was a lot better, it was a lot longer.
MEGAN: Yeah, ’cause that one was like real short.
MJ: Yeah, but the one on MTV was (cut in tape) It was fun.
MEGAN: It was? Really?
MJ: Yeah. A lot of fun. When I come to the states, your mother’s going to take you to my concert.
MEGAN: (excited) Is she?
MJ: Yeah.
MEGAN: (talking to someone in the background again, comes back to the phone and says ) She said, “She didn’t know.”
MJ: Of course she is.
MEGAN: Are you going to do it in the states?
MJ: Excuse me?
MEGAN: Are you going to do it here?
MJ: Yeah, hopefully, we’re gonna come to the states.
MEGAN: Good! Do you know where we can find Michael Jackson T-shirts at?
MJ: Um… they probably… I’ll get you a T-shirt, but I don’t think they are selling those in America right now.
MEGAN: Okay.
MJ: But, you know what?
MEGAN: What?
MJ: When you come to my concert in LA, they are going to sell T-shirts, and they are going to sell programs about the show with pictures in it, and they are going to sell buttons.and posters and pictures…
MEGAN: I had a dream that you bought me a real (cut in tape), and it had like a TV and it had brown wallpaper. And it was scary because me and mom… my mom sat by the, by the, um, by the closet… and we heard a noise coming from inside…
MJ: Yeah?
MEGAN: And it would talk and said, “To the beautiful,” and inside the closet… it would say “room”.
MJ: LOUD LAUGHTER
MEGAN: We opened it up…
MJ: Yeah?
MEGAN: You know Chucky? He always scared me… So I saw in the middle part… a body sitting in there. There’s no head, no arms, no feet, no butt…
MJ: LAUGHING
MEGAN: Just a body. There’s nothing there…just a big square.
MJ: I’m not afraid of Chucky.
MEGAN: It was moving and made like a liquid ..yuck..
MJ: Did you see those Chucky movies?
MEGAN: NO! I’m scared of them.
MJ: You know, that’s only pretend.
MEGAN: I know. But he SCARES me. My friend…you know Jill? She saw that and she said it was so scary, she had nightmares.
MJ: Yeah, it is. It’s not for children. You know what? I’ll tell you something.
MEGAN: Huh?
MJ: I’ll tell you something.
MEGAN: What?
MJ: Chucky is make believe (I) Hollywood… It’s just for movies, it’s just make believe.
MEGAN: I know but it has a creepy doll and it talks (sounds scared). And my friend Amber, um, she said that, um, that Penguin (from Batman) is Chucky’s sister (someone in the room is laughing)
MJ: No, it’s not. She’s not telling you the truth.
MEGAN: I know and that always scared me. So I had to take out my Poster of Batman Returns because Batman doesn’t scare me but Catwoman and Penquin scare me. Penquin looks like he has blood down his face.
MJ: Yeah, but do you know what?
MEGAN: It scares me.
MJ: But, you know what?
MEGAN: What?
MJ: That’s all pretend. Hollywood does that. You know like I did “Moon Walker”?
MEGAN: Yeah
MJ: That’s just pretend. That is not…
MEGAN: I know… But, how do you make that ponytail stick up in the air?
MJ: Where?
MEGAN: In that one guy that said “kill him, kill him”.
MJ: Oh, Oh…You mean Joe?
MEGAN: Yeah
MJ: The drug dealer?
MEGAN: Yeah.
MJ: They did that with moose and stuff like that. That was a hair piece and they did that, with you know… moose that you put in your hair?
MEGAN: Yeah?
MJ: Yeah.They did it like that. But it’s all pretend, it’s all make believe. That is the great thing about Hollywood… is doing movies… ’cause it’s all pretend. You know, it’s like… you have an imagination and stuff like that.
MEGAN: Is that right?
MJ: Yeah. It’s all pretend.
MEGAN: Well soon, I’ll be starring in a movie because I’m gonna be in one.
MJ: Yeah. I think you will!
MEGAN: Because my dad said he’s going to get me in the movies. And I said “If you get me in the movies, I’ll buy you a golf course”.
MJ: LOUD LAUGHTER. You know how Janet laughs?
MEGAN: How?
MJ: Janet goes (HIGH SQUEEKING SOUND). Janet’s got a real high laugh.
MEGAN: She goes “( repeats: Hee Hee..HIGH SQUEEKING SOUND)” OH, Remember the Time came on when I was driving to “Kids Space”.
MJ: Oh really? On the radio?
MEGAN: In (I) movie
MJ: What movie?
MEGAN: In San Bernadino it came on.
MJ: Oh really?
MEGAN: Yeah. Right before it was Madonna’s new movie song.
MJ: : Did you see my new video?
MEGAN: What one?
MJ: The one called Jam.
MEGAN: Yeah that was good. (pause). And I saw you made like a book of poems.
MJ: Uh huh.
MEGAN: I saw that and… you looked funny when you sat up straight and you were like this and you had your shoulders up real high and you were smiling.
MJ: Yeah?
MEGAN: It looked funny.
MJ: Did you read any of the poetry?
MEGAN: Yeah. A little bit.
MJ: There’s a poem in there. It’s about children. There’s some… There’s a lot of poems in there about children.
MEGAN: Really? ‘Cause I’ve hardly read any of them. I just read a couple of them. There’s one poem you wrote when you were 12 years old.
MJ: Who, me?
MEGAN: Yeah. (long pause)
MJ: What?…are you looking at the book?
MEGAN: No. Just one book. Here you are when you’re 11. “The Magic and the Madness”.
MJ: Oh that! (sounds disappointed)
MEGAN: Here you are in a swimming pool.
MJ: When I was little?
MEGAN: Yeah.
MJ: Tell me! Meagan? (I think he’s distracting her from the book)
MEGAN: Yeah?
MJ: What is your biggest dream you want to be when you grow up.
MEGAN: AN actress, a dancer and a singer…of POP music
MJ: Yeah?
MEGAN: Yeah. Have you seen the movie “Wild Hearts Can’t be Broken?”
MJ: No.
MEGAN: I just watched it and it was a very good show. It was about a girl and she liked um, she found in the newspaper a job… You see, she wanted to be like an actress and stuff. There was a job… there was a horse and it runs up an alley and you jump on the horse…
MJ: Yeah?
MEGAN: And then you run off some more and you drive in the water and a bridge goes up.
MJ: Uh huh
MEGAN: And they run out on the bridge and you come up out of the water and then you bow. It was like that. And she did that, um she did the driving because the other person quit..because she broke her arm…and the other girl takes her place. Ya see, the girl became stuck to the job. And then her horse got sick. So she (continues talking about the horse going wild in the air)…(I’m confused on this part of the translation)..(She continues about 3 more minutes about the movie)..{Michael was listening and going uh, huh, uh huh.]
MJ: Yeah that was a true story.
MEGAN: It was a wonderful one too.
MJ: Yeah… pause…Do you still have your (I)?
MEGAN: Yeah. All of it.
MJ: Really?
MEGAN: Uh Huh. Did you watch fireworks?
MJ: Yeah we had fireworks. I went to a party. It was a private party and we had fireworks (I)
MEGAN: A movie star party?
MJ: Well, no it was a private… friends (I)
MEGAN: (I) watching this one show…and all the lights went out and there was like fireworks that go across the sky and more and more would come. AND they were flashing across the sky like. Purple would all head over the left way and green would go that way, red would go straight up and they would all get mixed. It was very good. But, it was in Disneyland.
MJ: Oh yeah?
MEGAN: Yeah. People have even been setting them off in our neighborhood. But, they’re not suppose to.
MJ: I know they’re not.
MEGAN : I heard like fireworks.. I was listening to music and it’s like POP and I looked up and there was fireworks going off. I remember when my brothers…

Tape 12/15

(Michael and Glenda talking once again; sometime during June-July; DWT)

Source: LivinOfftheWall (2014). MJ and Stein family tapes, 12/15. [Video]: Youtube.

MJ: (I) I’ve got another call going through.
G: Oh great.
MJ: Hold on just a minute.
G: Okay.
(He’s back on the phone with Glenda now)
MJ: Hello.
G: Hello.
MJ: Hi.
G: Hi. What are you doing?
MJ: I just got out of the shower… cause I’m tired, cause I was up early. I got up at 4:30.
G: I thought you got up at 4:30 every morning.
MJ: No. Sometimes I get up at 5:00
G: (Laughing) Oh (Laughing) Okay.
MJ: I was awake earlier… I got out of bed at 4:30. I’ve been up listening to the radio.
G: What kind of music are they playing?
MJ: Well, I listen to the (I)
G: Oh really?
MJ: Yeah.
G: They play pretty good music?
MJ: Well, a little… it’s old.
G: Laughing
MJ: (I) and they talk about I have that show…
G: Tonight?
MJ: Yeah.
G: Oh.

(cut in tape)

THIS CONVERSATION IS JULY 11, 1992

G: Let me turn the radio down.
MJ: What?
G: I said “I got to turn the radio down.” I couldn’t hear you. So what day is it there?
MJ: Saturday!
G: It’s Saturday. Oh yeah, that’s right… it’s Saturday… the 11th. Okay.That’s right…you do have a show. (Laughing)
MJ: Yeah, I do!
G: Laughing
MJ: God…This day is going to go by so slow.
G: No it isn’t. It will be tonight before you know it.
MJ: I’ve got to make an appearance today.
G: What…Where?
MJ: At a Childrens Hospital..(I) Pediatrics. I was going to give away (I) for this family (I)
G: That’s lovely
MJ: So I was deciding… I was deciding what (I) I was going to wear for the appearance.
G: Oh. Did you decide?
MJ: Uh uh.
G: Do you pick your own clothes?
MJ: Yep.
G: You do?
MJ: Uh huh
MJ: I think I’ll wear black and gold.
G: That always sounds nice. You love black, huh?
MJ: Yes.

(Cut in tape – sometime between 12th -14th July, still in Cologne)

MJ: Hello… How ya doing?
G: Fine…It’s been a while huh? Laughing . ‘Cause usually it’s been ages since I’ve talked to you last. (Laughing)
MJ: Yeah
G: (Glenda’s callwaiting beeps).. Hold on…(She’s back)…No, he just called to tell me he was spending the night with Richard.
MJ: (Michael is teasing Glenda, acting like her son that called was making up the story about spending the night with Richard. Michael is insinuating that Richard was covering for his son)… So Michael says: (I) “Good…That ‘s (I) good… Let’s call and tell her that! (I) If she calls you, cover for me.”
G: (Laughing). But, Richard might be with him. (Laughing) No, I don’t believe that. I believe that he’s spending the night. Really!
MJ: You do?
G: Uh huh
MJ: Yeah. He is… he’s a good kid.
G: He is, you know!
MJ: I know he is.
G: He’s kinda wacky… He’s working at our Factory.
MJ: Is he?
G: Yeah
MJ: Ahhhhhh
G: Yeah. I went out to lunch with him today, had lunch…
MJ: You sound really far away.
G: Sorry! So do you! Could it be because you are.
MJ: (I)
G: ( Laughing) So have you had an exciting week?
MJ: Yeah.
G: You been going a lot of place and doing a lot of stuff?
MJ: Yeah. Of course, I visited the children’s hospital (I)… and we went to this ..um…it’s called a Chinese Pond.
G: Oh yeah?
MJ: And you take little baby pigs in the mud because they do..(I)
G: Oh NO
MJ: It was fun.
G: There’s nothing cuter than a BABY PIG!!
MJ: I’m gonna get one.
G: …with his little tail… Oh, How darling!
MJ: I’m gonna get a Pot Belly.
G: Oh I love baby pigs…I just love them.
MJ: Do you?
G: Oh, I do.They are the cutest things in the world. How bout you?
MJ: (I) absolutely
G: What’s cuter than a baby pig? I mean they’re so sweet, their little butts and their little tales and those faces…
MJ: ( Laughing) Would you like to have a baby pig?
G: I’d love a baby pig
MJ: Really? A Pot Belly?
G: Laughing
MJ: (I)
G: Ummm..I think they’ve been having a lot of aftershocks in Big Bear/Bend???? But, I haven’t felt any. (talking about the June 28th 1992 California earthquake)
MJ: (I)
G: Yeah
MJ: (I)
G: Do you? I can’t wait! What are they?
M: They are surprises.
G: Oh NO
MJ: Say it!
G: What?
MJ: SURPRISES…(Glenda must say “surprises” wrong and he wants to hear how she says it)
G: SURPRISES…(Laughing) Alright..Yeah… I like “s’prises”
MJ: We’ve been doing a lot. (I) Didn’t I tell you about that?
G: I don’t think so.
MJ: We went on a balloon ride…
G: Aahhhhh
MJ: It’s beautiful up…
G: Is it? You’re in Cologne now Right?
MJ: Yep.
G: Huh?
MJ: Yes.
G: Is it nice there? Is it any different?
MJ: Yeah.
G: (Glenda’s callwaiting beeping again.) You know who’s phone I’m on… HOLD ON.
Glenda and Michael are back on now..
MJ: Maybe.
G: What?
MJ: What?
G: (Laughing) What?
MJ: Laughing
G: Umm. Who were you talking to?
M: I was talking to someone across the street.
G: Oh… That must have been (I) I love your telephone (must mean his mobile). I should have known better. You know what?
MJ: What?
G: It is SOOOOO wonderful in this room that you slept in. I took the…
MJ: I would call it my room.
G: You didn’t want me to. I thought you didn’t want me too… okay… Your Room. There’s such a beautiful breeze in here right now.
MJ: Isn’t it nice?
G: It really is nice. I took out the… part of the window. You know, in the front? That big window? I took out that pane… The big pane.
MJ: Really?
G: I took out the window and the screen is there. But, the window. There’s only… You cut it in half. Half is the window and the other half is the screen. So, I’ve got this wonderful breeze coming in and it feels great.
MJ: Are you in my bed?
G: Of course. (Laughing) I’ve been sleeping here.
MJ: I love that room.
G: Huh?
MJ: I love that room.
G: You know what? I love it too. I never realized how much I love it.
MJ: Oh yeah.
G: I’ve been sleeping in it all week.
MJ: Really? I like it I love it. And I think the bed is real comfortable.
G: Yes it’s got… They both have really nice mattresses.
MJ: Yeah, they do.
G: There’s just something peaceful about this room.
MJ: Yeah.
G: Yeah, I prefer it to my own.
MJ: Do you? I like yours. I like your bed… but I don’t like my bed. My mattress is too noisy.
G: Yes, it is! (Laughing) Hey Michael? It’s soooo mundane compared to what you have. I mean, you have so many beautiful things. I can’t believe you like something so ordinary.
MJ: (I)… I wrote something for you!
G: Did you? Can I hear it? (Glenda thinks Michael would say No)… so she says “No”, huh?
MJ: You can hear it. Let me get it upstairs. But, I don’t want you to take this the wrong way… Okay?
G: Oh God.
MJ: No. It’s not bad. But, I don’t want to seem like a typical nigga. It’s not like I’m coming on to you or anything.
G: Alright.
MJ: It’s just… Well, you’ll understand.
G: Okay.
MJ: Let me go get it, okay? Because I’m in the other room and I..
G: Okay.
MJ: It’s simple.
G: Alright.

(CUT IN TAPE) (Talks about London so maybe August 20-25th 1992)

G: Sure! What did you say?
MJ: I went back to London the other day.
G: Oh you did? Do you go over there often?
MJ: London is like…. um (depending on where you are in Germany)… like an hour and a half away.
G: How Nice! I always wanted to go to London. Do you like it? Is it very clean?
MJ: (I)
G: Just working!
MJ: (I)
G: Yeah, aahhh

(CUT TAPE)

MJ: I’m sure it’s (I)
G: It is! Laughing
MJ: I’m sure (I)
G: It’s a beautiful evening… I love this
MJ: Excuse Me?
G: I said, this is a beautiful evening. I love this kind of evening.
MJ: Is it dark over there?
G: Yeah. It’s dark and it’s a lovely breeze. It has been miserable. You know it’s been really hot. And it’s been real hard to sleep at night and it’s really nice tonight.
MJ: Don’t ya’ll not turn on the air?
G: No.
MJ: You don’t?
G: Uh uh. Never did. We have air conditioning in the living room and there’s, an air conditioner unit in the bedroom… the other bedroom… (clears throat) So we never had to turn on the air
MJ: (I)
G: You do? Laughing

Tape 13/15

(a conversation between Michael and Glenda’s son, Jason; summer or fall of ’92, during DWT)

Source: LivinOfftheWall (2014). MJ and Stein family tapes, 13/15. [Video]: Youtube.

Jason: Hi
MJ: How you doing Jason?
J: Good.
MJ: So what’s up?
J: Nothing
MJ: You wanted to talk to me about something?
J: Uh huh.
MJ: About what?
J: I don’t know
.MJ: You don’t know?
J: Uh huh.
MJ: What’s the matter?
J: Nothing.
MJ: So what have you been up too?
J: Reading a lot.
MJ: Oh yeah. Whatcha reading?
J: Ummm. One book is called “School’s Out” and one of them is “??Westside?? School” and then one I was reading um, a little while ago was um, is called “Maggie Maggie”
MJ: Muggie Muggie? (I think he misunderstood him)
J: Uh huh.
MJ: Which one is your favorite?
J: Um, Schools Out.
MJ: And your school’s out, right?
J: Huh.
MJ: Your school’s out?
J: Yeah.
MJ: So what are you doing this summer?
J: (I) music and going on camps
MJ: That will be fun, huh?
J: Yeah. Today I went to Kids Space Museum.
MJ: Huh?
J: Kids Space.
MJ: Yeah?
J: Uh huh. Then we did dress up and then we had like a beach and I had my… a bunch of shells in cases and two chairs and then it had a whole bunch of sand on the ground and buckets and shovels and on the wall it was painted like water and fish in the water and a bottle floating in the water and at the bottom there is like a big treasure chest…
MJ: (inaudible)
J: Yeah, um they had like ocean noises. I had fun… I went to the beach. Newport (I) the other day.
MJ: Yeah?
J: Yeah. And one guy… he was drunk and he went out in the water.
MJ: Yeah?
J: And um, the lifeguard had to go out there and get him… and he was like walking the wrong way and stuff.
MJ: He was what?
J: Like… when she was telling him to go over here, he was walking the other way.
MJ: Oh really? Because he was drunk?
J: Yeah, and there was a great big huge whale out there. It was making real big water..(I) .touch and so um… he like went high… one of the big whales, on top of the water.
MJ: (I) Water
J: And my mom made a tape for me
MJ: Yeah?
J: Of Janet and… Have you seen the new tape out Madonna made?
MJ: Yeah.
J: About “This Used To Be My Playground”?
MJ: Yeah.
J: She made that one and she got the tape of it so she put on the song “This used to be my playground”.
MJ: Yeah.
J: The one that Madonna sings, she put that on it… And she put on um Prince, that one Money Don’t Matter 2 Night and (I?) and Fine Young Cannibals
MJ: Oh Yeah?
J: “She Drives Me Crazy”
MJ: How’s your friend… that little girl I talked to?
J: Oh Jill? She’s good…

(Break in Tape – The transcript above took place when school was out in the summer and the one below, Jason is in school.)

J: I have a bad sunburn on my face.
MJ: Really?
J: Yeah. At school the teacher had to put that um like gel on my back.
MJ: Uh huh.
J: Aloe Vera.
MJ: Aloe Vera?
J: Yeah. One of the teachers at our school… he got like blisters from the sunburn on his back.
MJ: Ewww.
J: And he’s allergic to Aloe Vera.
MJ: Really?
J: Yeah, so he can’t put it on. He had gel. Another kid… he had like a sunburn, it was making his back peel and Edward peeled off pieces of his skin because it was like peeling off… And then there was another teacher. She had cancer when she was 11 yrs old and she had it in her leg, so she lost one of her legs, and now it’s like a big pole and it has like a cushion all around it and her foot is made of rubber.
MJ: Yeah?
J: And this is funny… she said this is funny… but, she would scare people by letting cars run over her foot.
MJ: (Laughing) That’s funny (Laughing)
J: And we would all go, “There’s a car running over her foot!“ (I) It was funny.
MJ: Laughing
J: And she um she like whenever we were playing a game of cards… I would stick my nails in her leg.
MJ: Yeah?
J: And she would just keep on playing. She wouldn’t even notice it. Well it was weird.
(Somebody else says “Hello”, maybe another kid grabbed Jason’s phone?)
MJ: Yeah, I have a friend in (I)he has a wooden leg.
J: He does? Wooden?
MJ: Yeah, his name is Mike.
J: Mike?
MJ: Yeah, he’s got a wooden leg. He got his leg… what happened was he got his leg shot off.
J: Shot off?
MJ: Yeah.
J: Oh you just reminded me of the friend at school, his dad was a firefighter and he like in that… you know that fire thingie that happened? That is happening… Yeah, in LA (He’s talking about the Rodney King Riots in April 29th 1992, LA)
MJ: What fire?
J: It was like a big fire and people were getting shot and stuff.
MJ: Yeah, when was this?
J: And his father got shot.
MJ: When was this?
J: This um… the Rodney King Thing happened.
MJ: Oh, when they were having all…
J: Like those things.
MJ: The riots?
J: Yeah, the riots.
MJ: Yeah?
J: Um… His father was in it and he got shot and he’s okay.
MJ: Yeah? That’s good.
(CUT TAPE)
MJ: I have a dog, and I have it’s… it’s a doberman, a guard dog. He’s big…
J: He’s big? Bigger than Sasha?
MJ: Oh yeah, much bigger.
MJ: He’s a Doberman… You know what a Doberman Pincher looks like?
J: No.
MJ: Oh, they’re beautiful.
J: Yeah? Real beautiful?
MJ: Yeah. He’s black and tan. He’s got a black face and tan eyebrows and his Muzzle’s tan and he’s got a little tail. Well see, Dobermans have these long tails, but people cut them off and make them short. So he’s got a little stubby tail. It’s maybe 2 inches long.
J: Does it… is it hurting when they cut off his tail?
MJ: Does it what?
J: Hurt?
MJ: No, it doesn’t… HOLD ON PLEASE (talking to someone in background)
J: Okay.
(faint talking in background, then Michael comes back)
MJ: Yeah, they cut their tales off and their ears also.
J: They cut off their ears too? (acts real upset)
MJ: Well see…You know, remember my dog I brought over there? She’s too little…
J: She’s way too little.
MJ: Yeah and they teach the Doberman Pinchers to be mean and aggressive to attack.
J: Is yours mean?
MJ: Yeah, the one I have here. He’s real mean. He’s a guard dog. He protects me.
J: If I pet him, would he bite me?
MJ: Well, he’s okay around children. You see, if you give him a command (I) and you give him ??TONTO?? (the dog’s name presumably) a command you say ATTACK, then he’ll attack somebody.
J: If a child did that?
MJ: What?
J: Even if a child does that?
MJ: If okay, like he has a trainer ??TONTO?? has a trainer. If a trainer calls for ??TONTO?? to attack, he would attack whoever he had to attack. Even a child.
J: Did you hear about the first time when I came visiting… I walked in and Sasha looked at my face and she liked… she liked looked at me in a weird way.
MJ: Yeah?
J: And she like opened her mouth like she was going to bite me and she came closer and started (I). I felt like (I) face
MJ: You felt what?
J: It looked like she was going to bite me. But she just came up, and it felt like she was going to bite me, but I just felt like um (I) in my face. It was weird.
MJ: Yeah?
J: (I)
MJ: But she didn’t bite you, did she?
J: I don’t know (I) she cleaned up my face
MJ: (Laughing) It bothers me [if she would bite you]
J: (I)
MJ: What?
J: Sasha’s not real mean.
MJ: Well she can be. You know my other dog I have, Shadow? Shadow is not mean at all. You could do any… If I told Shadow, if I said, “Shadow attack!” Shadow would never attack.
J: You should never make shadow be a guard dog
MJ: Well Shadow can’t be a guard dog… because she… it’s not in her blood. Shadow would never attack. Sasha would attack, because Sasha is a guard dog.
J: Did I tell you about that little girl that teaches Sunday School with her mom?
MJ: What’s her name?
J: Kathy…Katcherina?
MJ: Serena?
J: Katcherina
MJ: Katcherina??
J: Yeah. She’s a little girl in our Sunday class. Sunday School Class, where she takes little toddler kids and she’s from Germany…

Tape 14/15

(sometime during the summer or fall of DWT; talking about the places where Glenda has lived; discussing medical topics)

Source: LivinOfftheWall (2014). MJ and Stein family tapes, 14/15. [Video]: Youtube.

G: I’m gonna sell it probably in January.
MJ: What?
G: I’m gonna put it on the market in January
MJ: You are?
G: Uh huh
MJ: Why?
G: Because (in a sad voice) (I)
MJ: You don’t have to do that!
G: Well, why not? (chuckling)
MJ: (I)

(CUT IN TAPE)

G: When I first came out here, I lived at Wilshire..no..I lived on 6th street..2 blocks from Wilshire. I lived on the bus line and I use to take the bus every morning down (cut in tape). And I lived in an apartment called Yorshur.
MJ: Yorshur? YORKSHIRE?
G: (laughing)..that’s what I called it when I first came out here. Hold on..Hold on a second..I think I’m getting a cold. Anyway… Are you there?
MJ: Yes.
G: Then, I lived there for awhile and I met these 2 girls at a boutique.. Diane and Chris. And I lived on Rollo street, which was further down on Wilshire and then at (I) Apartment Complex.
MJ: Wilshire District?
G: Yeah. And then, after that, I moved into Hollywood. I lived at Lexington and Vine in back of the Brookmoor Hotel. It was a really funny place..It had a lot of history. They had this old….this real old guy..this old retired actor that use to play in Horror films and stuff and he turned into a real recluse…and he was uh, a real cat person. There was like 50 cats that lived in that place. I lived there for about 6 months..Then I moved to N. Hollywood….I lived on Gow…I lived in the foothills on Gower street.
MJ: I’ve heard of that.
G: And then I lived…then I moved to North Hollywood on ?Poton? Avenue . And then from there..I went to South Africa. I moved to a lot of places..I hated Hollywood. Oh, I thought that was the worst place to live.
MJ: Yeah, vicious
G: Yeah!
MJ: Yeah it is.
G: Melrose Avenue!! Laughing…We lived across the street from the Hollywood Ranch Market, if you could imagine.
MJ: Yeah, that is..
G: What a trip..Laughing.. Characters like Gav!
MJ: Laughing
G: It was funny. It was real funny. I met a lot of strange people. I guess the most fun was when I first met(I)….he was writing film and he was at Studio City and he gets really (I) out there all the time….to Jim/Jenn
MJ: Yeah, really (I)
G: Yeah
MJ: (I) me. (I?)
G: She did? Isn’t he dead now? I think he died. I think I read something that he died.They use to come out there all the time.(I)
MJ: (I) really (I)
G: Yeah? I’m one of those name droppers
MJ: Both G and M laughing.
G: How you doing?
MJ: (I)
G: You feel real good?
MJ: Yeah..(I) really working my ass. He’s been pushing me all week. Running around (I) closure..
G: Are you eating?
MJ: Yeah! I have to eat. I got a show to do tonight. Of course, I’ll probably lose a couple of pounds on stage. I’m trying to keep my weight at a certain place. I’m starting to eat a lot of proteins and stuff…rice and beans and (I).
G: Uh huh..Do you eat pasta?
MJ: Well… It depends on the if it’s made with vegetable oil or (i)
G: Oh.
MJ: It’s good though… So, I probably drop a couple of pounds at least.
G: How long was your show?
MJ: A couple of hours. Did I tell you I (I) went to (i)?
G: Yeah!

(THIS IS A NEW CONVERSATION/TIME/DAY)

G: Yeah! And then what they really wanted you to…they were really trying to get you to… I was reading…
MJ: A lot of negotiations.
G: Sorry?
MJ: A lot of negotiations.
G: I was reading about that mural that they are going to do of you at the….um…some building….a warehouse..over at the..close the the (I) Chinese Theatre.
MJ: Oh, yeah, that (I) unveiling
G: You’re bailing?
MJ: Unveiling!
G: Unveil….Laughing…I thought you said you were Bailing..Laughing…All right…If you want to bail..Laughing..
MJ: Let me get (I)
G: Okay
MJ: (I) (very hard to hear)… (I)…new girl..(I) cute and stuff
G: She is?
MJ: (I)
G: Say what?
MJ: She’s cute and stuff and her name is Jennifer (I)
G: Oh
MJ: (i) kind of a weird speech and (I)
G: Yeah?
MJ: (I)
G: Everything must be so different, huh?
MJ: Oh they have this one mouthwash… I don’t know the name of it. (I)the AIDs virus.
G: Laughing
MJ: (I) girl had an abscess… It had me crying!
G: NO?
MJ: Yes!
G: Was it worst than Listerine?
MJ: Oh, I HATE Listerine.
G: Laughing
MJ: No this stuff… was… minty… it stinks (I)
G: Laughing… You know what I still have of yours is your plaque! It’s still here.
MJ: Oh really?
G: Yeah!
MJ: Plaque (I)
G: You didn’t? Did you really?
MJ: (I) should know! (I) find out what the best thing better than Listerine?(I). I go to doctors and I like… do you know what I like to do?
G: Uh Uh
MJ: (I)
G: Laughing..oh probably.
MJ: When people get colds… When I get colds or something… I like to watch the germs and stuff.
G: Aaahhhhhh (acting shocked)
MJ: It’s called ….tine….It attacks everything.
G: Oh my god.
MJ: It’s so cool to watch.
G: For you, baby (laughing)
MJ: I love to watch (I) that you know cough up and stuff
G: Oh my god.
MJ: Laughing
G: Oh, no more!
MJ: She was (I)…millions of them… And they were like crawling on top of each another.
G:Aaahhhhh (Shocked)..You and Scooter should get together. She would love this kind of talk. She was telling me today about her Barium Enema that she (laughing) had yesterday.
MJ: Oh god!
G: (laughing) It was the worst.
MJ: What did she say?
G: (laughing)…She just goes into detail. I just wanted to be SICK (I) I’m (I) pathetic. Now, God, woman… You know I have such a vivid imagination… And she’s heavy. You know? She’s a real fat woman and I can just imagine this. And it just grosses me out…laughing… She drinks this… She’s suppose to (I) do an upper GI every hour. You drink this stuff…
MJ: Yeah
G: …this chalky stuff
MJ: Yeah
G: Then she was telling me how they lay her on her side (laughing) and (I) barium enema (laughing). And she said “they cleaned me all out!”
MJ: Laughing
G: (I) Huh?
MJ: Everything but the taps came out.
G: Laughing…I said, “Please don’t say anymore.” She’s tickled at me. She thinks I’m kidding, but I’m not. I’m just on the verge of running to the woman’s bathroom. She’s very sweet, but very graphic. She loves to really get into it. She would love this.
MJ: (I)
G: Huh?
MJ: (I)
G: Uh huh…
MJ: I Love (I)…United States and everything (I)under the microscope…..and got curious (I)..it’s interesting (I) it’s all on your body and stuff! Did I tell you about Jess/Ess/Jeff?
G: NO!
MJ: Ess/Jess/Jeff (cut in tape)… I told my friend, I told this girl, I told my friend about what Jess/Jeff did. She cleans her house all the time now, cause she doesn’t want dust to get in.
G: Dust is nasty?
MJ: Yeah… (I)..dusty… even going to the bathroom (I)
G: No!
MJ: Yeah it is!
G: I don’t believe you.
MJ: Yes it is. It’s a medical fact. Ask your doctor.
G: You’re full of it!
MJ: I swear. Ask your doctor.
G: Laughing
MJ: It’s something ya’ll kinda like and that creates dust (I)
G: Oh you are nuts!
MJ: Girl, I’m not. Ask a doctor!
G: Laughing. I don’t believe you.
MJ: I swear to you. I swear on Mothers Life. I wouldn’t lie. It Is!
G: Poor Mother! (Laughing) She’s died a thousand deaths by now. (laughing)
MJ: ( laughing) I swear to you. That’s what it is.
G: Laughing. No!
MJ: Yes it is. I swear, I would not lie.
G: Oh ya’ll…
MJ: It is, I swear.
G: laughing . Oh no!
MJ: I promise. Ask your doctor.
G: You’re going to promise me?
MJ: I swear
G: Laughing
MJ: That’s what it is…

CUT IN TAPE OR DRASTICALLY CHANGES CONVERSATIONS

G: I’m reading the most horrible book.
MJ: What cha reading?
G: It’s real bad
MJ: Polter….?
G: No. I’ve already read that one. I read…I don’t read anything unless it’s true. It’s gotta be true.
MJ: What is it?
G: This is called “Early Grave”. And it’s about, um, this man and woman that kill…I guess she kills…She killed 2 or 3 people…2 or 3 girls. She would pick up young girls and then she would kill them. This one..she would did, um, she injected her with draino and liquid plumber.
MJ:Eww.
G: You know..and she injected her in her neck. She was only 13 yrs old.
MJ: Is that right?
G: ..she was only 13
MJ: The lady was trying to kill her?
G: Yes..And that didn’t kill her, so she ended up just shooting her in the back. And she (I). This woman is so horrible.
MJ: It’s a true story?
G: Yeah. And she is so cold and calculating. This happened back in um…well, she was on trial in 83. So I guess it must have been…
MJ: Who was the woman?
G: Judith Neely and Alvin Neely is her husband. But, what a sick person, a real sick woman.
MJ: Really!
G: And she met her husband when they were um, when she was only about 16 and um, she got pregnant and she gave birth to twins. And she actually…when she went around and committed these atrocities, these babies were with her. I mean they were sleeping in the backseat. You know..they just like drifted around from town to town and they did like petty theft and armed robberies and stuff like that to get money..this was around Alabama and Georgia that this all happened. I had heard about it. I had heard about this couple that had taken this 13 yr old girl and kept her for several days and injected her with Liquid Plumber and Draino..I didn’t really know the whole story behind it..And then they picked up another..They picked up a couple. It was a guy and a girl. And this girl, as it turned out, was mentally retarded. But, they didn’t know that. I guess this boy (I) didn’t know that either she was simple. They ended up shooting him and leaving him for dead, but he lived. But, they killed her. But she, um… I didn’t understand, I didn’t know why either. Well, she was married and she would have these babies, she would have these twin babies. But, she was like a lesbian, I guess, because she wanted to get these young girls for herself and sharing them with her husband… I don’t know… I thought you were either one way or another.
MJ: No..(I) girls
G: He seemed to accept (laughing) the situation
MJ: (I) open their legs (I)
G: I guess! Must have been. ‘Cause she wanted him to, you know, have sex with these girls. And she would have sex with them herself. And I thought, God
MJ: That’s a little strange!
G: Huh?

(BEEP—Must be callwaiting)

MJ: When did you get..When did you start reading it?
G: Oh, Um, I got it about 4 days ago.
MJ: Can I read it?
G: Sure!
MJ: (I) good book!
G: Yeah..It is good..Right now. I read where she’s been… she’s in prison and she’s writing letters to her husband. He, um, they couldn’t get him for any of the murders, cause he never seemed to be on the scene when she was committing the murders. But, they got him for rape and the robberies and stuff like that. She was a big woman. She was like 6 foot and big boned
MJ: (I)
G: Huh?
MJ: (I) petite
G: Yeah. And he was a big fat slobbery thing

Tape 15/15

(talking about Bill Bray’s fart issue and the Jackson’s  TV series or  “The Jacksons: An American Dream” TV special, which was originally broadcast on Nov. 15-18 of 1992.

Source: LivinOfftheWall (2014). MJ and Stein family tapes, 15/15. [Video]: Youtube.

MJ: I listen to what you say.
G: Oh.
MJ: [something something and your advice?]
G: Oh my god! (laughs)
MJ: Yes, I do that.
G: Huh?
MJ: I do that, I pay attention. More so than you think I do.
G: Really?
MJ: Mhm.
G: Oh. (laughs)
MJ: I do that (I) Oh, you wanna go get your tape?}
G: (laughing) I’ve got it right here.
MJ: You got it? Really?
G: ‘Kay, wait a minute, hold on.
MJ: (i) [got something to tell you] (laughing) It’s gross (laughing) I don’t want to tell you.
G: What is it NOW? What is this- oh, is it something to do with the hospital?
MJ: Nooo. It’s something to do with Bill.
G: With Bill?
MJ: And Randy. Randall and Kathy, God. Well, Randy already knows, because he had a huge problem with Bill before. It’s gross, I don’t want to tell you (laughing)
G: Oh, come on! What is this? Okay, this is Bill Bray right?
MJ: Yeah, Bill!
G: Okay. What did he do, what’s he doing?
MJ: Every time, every time he gets up…
G: (laughing) Come on, man, it can’t be that gross!
MJ: It happens every time. Every time, this has been going on for years. (laugh)
G: (laugh) Really?
MJ: (i) whenever I stay in the room.
G: Is he in the room?
MJ: Oh, he’s getting ready to get in the shower. Every time, every time even when we were little kids. Bill, I tell you how he snores he (makes a loud snoring noise).
G: I know you, told me! (laugh)
MJ: Every time, every time, girl, the first thing he does…(laughing)
G: Oh no! What?
MJ: (still laughing)
Glenda and MJ: (both laugh)
G: Come on! What does he do?
MJ: He’ll wake up, go bursting outta bed, and he farts real loud! (laughing)
G: (gasps) Are you serious?
MJ: (laughing) Yes.
G: Why?
MJ: He’s been doing this for years. I don’t know. I said, “You better check this, I think there’s something wrong with you, Bill.”
G: (laughing)
MJ: But when he opens his eyes, he’ll stretch and he’ll wake up. “Michael, you awake?” “Yeah, I been, man…”
G: That’s the worst, Michael!
MJ: (laughing)
G: Oh my god, what a turn off. How do you stand it?
MJ: (laughing)
G: (laughing with him)
MJ: He’s always had that problem.
G: (laugh) I hope it’s just in the morning!
MJ: Yeah.
G: It’s not like an all-day thing…
MJ: (laugh) Nooo…
Michael and G: (still laughing…)
G: So funny!
MJ: And we used to tease him when we were little boys and stuff like that. We used to share a room with him, me and Marlon. First thing he did in the morning, he farted reeaal loud. Oh god we were like, “Clear the room, clear the room!”
G: (laughs)
MJ: He STILL does it. I haven’t been on tour with him for a long time. We like, “Oh my gooood, Bill!”
G: How funny! Oh my god.
MJ: It’s gross.
G: That is gross, that’s the worst.
MJ: I know, when he’s awake, every time I’d be playing asleep. “Michael? Joker (Bill’s nickname for Michael was Joker), Joker are you awake? Hey, Joker?” I go (loud fart noise).
Glenda and MJ: (laughter)
G: That is funny.
MJ: My god, he trying to kill me.
G: That’s very funny. (laugh) Well, I guess when you’re in close quarters with somebody like that…
MJ: You got to be LOUD and stuff?
Glenda and MJ: (laugh)
G: Yeah…
MJ: (i) (impersonating Bill’s voice): “It’s gas now, it’s gas, yeah yeah.”
G: (laugh)
MJ: (I)

[Assuming this was cut, too. Doesn’t fit will Bill’s gaseous problems.]

G: Hold on a second. No, I really can’t Michael. I can’t understand.
MJ: It’s just like… I’m being totally open.
G: I guess that’s when you’re the most comfortable
MJ: Yes, I would like to die on stage. (I) The most (I) because I can be no matter who I am, I can still jam, I can be (I), just do dance, just pour out my heart. God.
G: (giggle) Yeah.
MJ: You know, this special’s coming up pretty soon.
G: Which one?
MJ: The Jackson special (talking about the Jacksons: An American Dream produced by Jermaine, aired November 15, 1992)
G: Oh, really?
MJ: Yeah…
G: When’s it gonna come on?
MJ: It’s coming on in the fall.
G: Yeah? Well I’m going to watch that for sure.
MJ: Yeah, the little boy’s such a good entertainer. But for me to have to sit there and watch it while everyone is there, I don’t know, it’s just going to bring back all these memories.
G: I’m sure it will.
MJ: I’m really (scared?) and God what if I (I)
G: I know the feeling.
MJ: The things and the people that touch your lives(I). Which is sad, ’cause of course they’re not going to tell everything.
G: No.

(CUT IN TAPE)

MJ: Latoya’s saying all this and that, Latoya upsetting you.
G: I tell you, Latoya and I went around and around.
MJ: laughing (i)
G: God, I remember that and she said, “What do you want?” and I said, “Well, what do you want?” We want back and forth and then finally she said, she told me what she said, she said “I want it to end,” and I said, “Well, you’re not gonna get that, Latoya.” Funny, she wanted to meet us, she wanted us to meet-
MJ: I know! Her and her…
G: (laugh)
MJ: ….hit man, hit man boyfriend.
G: Yeah. (laugh)
MJ: I was going to say nigga.

(CUT IN TAPE)

G: Oh we have lovely memories as well. I love the memory I have with Janet. I remember one day I was walking down to go to home. It was after five, it was all gray and, like, rainy (i) He said, “Glenda, Jan is on the line.” And I got on the phone and she says, “Glenda, you gotta do this, you gotta play this joke on Michael.”
MJ: (inaudible, laughter)
G: I go, “What? I dunno if I should do this, you know, he might freak out or something.” “No, you gotta do this, you gotta play this joke on him.” That was fun.
MJ: (laughing) I remember. I got you real good too girl.. with that whip.. sour cream and stuff. That was the night I was going to come over there and we had the kids screaming.
G: Everybody was screaming!
MJ: Your husband was screaming! You – I said well, (in low voice) “I, I can’t make it tonight, I’m really tired.” And he got off (her jacket?) and started (I) G: (laugh)
MJ: And I said “HIKE” and then they couldn’t even tell I was throwing them. It was so funny.
G: Oh, I shoulda known you were doing that.
MJ: Oh, you were so pissed!
G: Yes, I was! (i) [gone through?] a lotta trouble.
MJ: You were mad. You were madder than that woman that had a nappy natural and couldn’t pick it out with a comb – you were so mad!
G: (laugh) Or when you called me and told me that you were gonna get married. I thought that I had given you all the wrong advice, I thought, “Oh my god!”
Michael and G: (Loud laughter)
MJ: I forgot all about that!
G: “What did I saaay?! I didn’t mean to!” Yeah, we done a lot in this short period of time, haven’t we?
MJ: Yeah. That was funny now that I think about it, at the time

(TAPE CUT)

G: And you both cried at the end.
MJ: And you- what?
G: You both cried at the end of it
MJ: Yeah. I didn’t wanna watch, I told you it was gonna be like that.
G: Yeah. Why does it make you cry?
MJ: ‘Cause it’s just so (i). We just be crying [when(I)? was going away, then they crying] and when she saw him, oh god! Like Jackie said, I be crying in commercials and stuff. (i) [don’t ask me I just wanted to (I)] When I die, you know, [I know I’m gonna see all that, I know I’m gonna see (grandmother again?)]
G: I hope so.
MJ: Yeah. Just like you know (i)[ a feeling]
G: I don’t think about stuff like that.
MJ: (i)
G: It gets me very upset and I don’t wanna talk about that.
MJ: Oh, I’m not gonna skip now, I got a show to do here, girl.
G: Yeah, you do. Must you go now?
MJ: What?
G: Must you go now?
MJ: Must I go?
G: Yeah.
MJ: No. Are you going now?
G: No.
MJ: (begins to talk, but Glenda laughs) What?
G: Oh, that little bit where you (i).
MJ: I gotta get my hair done.
G: Yeah, you must have a lot of things to do.
MJ: Yeah, I’m gonna get my hair trimmed a little too. ‘Cause, you know, the more you trim it, the better it grows. (I) We got another sound check today with, um, the band and stuff. Oh, they set up everything and it’s great. (sighs) And god, just, girl, you just don’t know, just being up there on that stage… You know, I’m really lonely, and…
G: Are you still?
MJ: (singing bits of Will You Be There).” I get lonely sometimes, will you be there, Will you still care, will you be there?”
G: You still get lonely? Really?
MJ: I never stop, I’ll be having a great time, I never, I just, it’s like a total makeover on stage. I never show ‘em all, [No matter (I) for me] ’cause they don’t know what you’re sayin’.
G: (laughs)
MJ: And that’s why it’s gonna be kinda fun to get to the the states [ ‘even if they don’t understand what you’re saying]
G: I heard that Russia wants you to come and do a show.
MJ: Yeah. Oh, they’ll get more than that. But it’s like, all these people are [born??](I) and stuff like that. Once you get to America, people know what you’re saying. It’s so weird that you do shows overseas, they, they, they respect it in a different way. (Or: It’s weird when you do shows overseas, they, they, are receptive in a different way.)
G: They are?
MJ: Yeah, it’s like–

*********Break. Very static-y, and very difficult to understand..******** **

MJ: The night before what?
G: You were gonna be (i)
MJ: You’ve gotta talk louder
G: Remember the night two nights before you were gonna make your announcement on that radio station?
MJ: Oh yeah.
G: Remember?
MJ: I remember.
G: [I’m glad?] we talked for four hours (laughs) At that time, you didn’t really wanna tour again.
MJ: No, no. I’m gonna be so euphoric after this show.
(can’t make out anything here)
G:Why?
MJ: Because (I)[my heart and soul?] (I)
G and M laughing
G: You can hear it anyway.
MJ: Yeah, really? Well that’s just bad (I) we’re gonna we’re gonna have to (I) a lotta–

(Cut in tape, loud static)

G: It was good?
MJ: The outfits are amazing. They are great.
G: Yes, I read about them. (laugh)
MJ: Oh you did? (I)
G: Yeah. I bet. They weigh enough
MJ: It’s gonna be so hot under those lights. it’s gonna be like (i) [I’ll be having a baby on that stage, you know?]
MJ: Taking [valeroots?], I gotta take [valeroots? thing]
G: What’s [valeroots word?]
MJ:Valeroot’s is something for your throat, like if you speak a lot or if you sing or something like that, they soothe your throat, they cool your vocal chords
G: Oh, I never heard of it.
MJ: Yea, they taste nasty, I don’t like the way they taste. But I’m just (I)
G: So nice (I) it must be nice to have somebody that you really [inaudible, wanna take good care of? OR it must be nice to have somebody that you can talk to that cares?]
MJ: Oh, well, it’s the best. I always feel so lonely—